Developing a Sense of Belonging as a Leader with Tony Martignetti, Founder at Inspired Purpose Partners

(Intro Narrator at 00:00:00) Today, we're talking to Tony Martignetti, founder of Inspired Purpose Partners, about how to be your authentic self in the workplace. You're listening to Joel Beasley, Modern CTO.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:17) The way I got connected to you was some people reached out to me. They're like, "Hey, you need to have Tony on the show." They sent me a bunch of your materials. One of the things was the TED Talk. I looked at the TED Talk. I watched it. But my first question to you is, like, what even put you on this path of studying being your true self in the workplace? Were you not your true self in the workplace?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:00:43) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's really the core of a lot of what we do in the world. We start to realize what's missing, and then we seek it, and then we become the voice of the thing that we most want. So yeah, I'll give you my backstory if you like.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:03) Mhm.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:01:04) So, before I got into the world of work, I was an artist, and I spent time drawing, painting, just really a passionate artist. And then I decided that that wasn't gonna pay the bills. And it wasn't just my decision. It was actually a lot of well-meaning adults in my life who said, "Hey, you know, you gotta figure out a path that's gonna pay for your family and all." So I was a pre-med major because that made a lot of sense, right? I went into medicine and then eventually realized that wasn't right. So I got into business—accounting, finance, that kind of stuff—and found myself working in the biotech industry, which is fantastic. I mean, we were working on some amazing stuff, and the work I was doing was meaningful. But the reality is, underneath all of that, there was always something missing for me. I always felt like there was a missing component because I was showing up differently at work than I was in my true life. I felt like I had to hide my creativity. I had to hide my personality. And instead, I had to show up as the analytical person, right? Because I had to hide for so long, I eventually started to get burnt out and stressed and felt like there's something missing.

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:31) Wait, and I'm sorry. I do interrupt people because I'm interested in what you're saying. I kind of want to piece it apart a little bit. You felt like you—so you had this beautiful artistic background, right?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:02:43) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:44) But then at work, you felt like you had to hide that. Why?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:02:49) Well, because there was an expectation of trying to be like everyone else. I was in an industry where everyone had these Ivy League degrees, and they showed up polished and knowledgeable and scientific. There's this sense of, like, really not like me—like a person who thinks and dreams of creative aspirations and thinks about people. They were more analytical, thinking about science. It was just kind of like the polar opposite of who I really was. And although they really appreciated that—underneath all of what I was showing up on the surface, I think they saw who I really was, even though I was trying to hide it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:36) And this is like you learning about yourself. This is you developing self-awareness, right? Because if you realize that you're a square in a circle world or you're a circle in a square world—I'm a, my strategy, I'm not saying it's right and I don't study this, but my strategy is if I'm a circle in a square world, I'm gonna go find a circle world. I need to go find a world where I can be the best circle that I can be.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:04:03) And that's great because it's comfortable, right? There's a sense of, like, you find a place where you belong, right? If you don't fit in, you find a place where you fit in. The reality is, I think that a lot of people want to make an impact in certain areas, and that might require them to change the way that those organizations, those fields, are wired. So it's like changing the environment. And what's interesting about—you know, just kind of take one little tangent to say the art that I was developing, working on, was all about environments, shaping worlds. And now here I am in the place where I start to shape worlds in the work that I do now, which is all about changing environments. When I was in the world of working in biotechs and different companies in the tech world, a lot of the worlds I worked in, they didn't feel right. They needed someone to change the environment.

(Joel Beasley at 00:05:02) That's why I got out of leadership training. When the show started, we started licensing the content and building leadership programs. And on the sales calls, I'm like, "You don't need tactics. You need an entirely new environment. You need someone to come in and actually sit with your business and figure out all of these issues." There's no program you can buy from me. There's no class you can take from anyone that's going to solve your problem. You need drastic change within the dynamics of your teams. So because I felt like I couldn't help, I was just like, "Alright, this business is probably not the business for me because I want to be useful as a person, right? You want to contribute." So you ultimately—what was the outcome for you? What did you end up doing? Did you go find circle world, or did you find out how to be a circle in a square world?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:05:50) I love that, circle world. No, I mean, I stuck it out for longer than I probably should have until I felt myself so burnt out that I went through the darkest moments of my life. And then I turned, step by step, got out of that moment. The darkest moments were, you know, really on the verge of not really wanting to go on, but then realizing that I had something to live for. And slowly but surely clawed my way out and started to see possibilities through meditation and therapy and all these things that I started to grasp at as opportunities to find a better way. And then finally found myself in a boardroom of a biotech company, realizing that this is the moment that I need to really take control of things. And I said, "I'm gonna leave this room, and I'm gonna change—I'm gonna leave this room to change the room." And that's really what I said as I walked out the door and literally said, "I'm not coming back." I didn't say that. I said it to myself.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:58) Yeah. One of the gray areas I had when listening to your awesome TED Talk with over two million views—go check it out. We'll put the link in the show notes, all that good stuff. But one of the gray areas that I had was, okay, when you said, "Don't check yourself at the door. Here's how to share your true self." And it was actually a quote I took a note on. If you want people to show up as their true selves, you have to show up as your true self. I thought that was the most amazing thing that you said in that talk because it's something that I—it's a lived experience that I have had, which brings up this gray area. What happens if you hear this advice and your true self sucks? What if you're hiding parts of yourself because you know that, you personally, they do not—you don't meet your own standards, and the result of that is shame, right? The normal, healthy result of you not meeting your own standards is shame. So you feel that shame. You hide your true self because you suck. How do you navigate—where's that gray area of showing who you really are but also designing and preparing and working yourself to become somebody that's worth sharing about?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:08:06) Well, first of all, there's an element of owning the suck and facing it. And I think this is actually where a lot of the pieces of my work come together because I have this book called Campfire Lessons for Leaders: How Uncovering Your Past Can Propel You Forward, which we'll talk a bit more about. But there's an element of saying, "Okay, well, you first have to get to know yourself." Before you can share more of who you are with others, you first get to know really who you are, and that might also come with the uncomfortable parts of saying, "Hey, there's a part of me that I haven't really faced or haven't really kind of come to grips with." And when you do that, you have to take three different—three Cs of kind of doing that reflection. It's curiosity, compassion, and connection. And connection, you know, obviously thinking of connection as being something that's outward to someone else, but you have to connect with who you are. And I think that's an important aspect that a lot of us miss. In fact, that's what I was missing when—until I left that room. I didn't ask the questions that I most needed to connect with, which is, "Who am I? Who do I really want to be?" And those questions, existential questions that we often kind of don't want to face because they seem so shocking and, you know, can be the ones that you're like, "I really don't like who I am. Why do I want to ask that question?" The reality is that when you do and allow yourself to face them, you start to say, "Hey, maybe I'm not all that bad. And the parts that I don't really like, I can start to say, 'Okay, that was just part of the journey,' and they're offset by these other parts that I really do appreciate and I can use as the tools to lean forward."

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:01) Do you find yourself having to share one-on-one tools on how to get started with changing yourself? Because the moment you bring this idea of sharing yourself up and the logical conclusion's like, "Well, maybe there's parts of myself I don't like," and now I have to develop skills on how to change myself, which is its own set of skills. After you have that awareness, then you have to do something about it. Do you teach and share through all of that, or do you just focus on organizations?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:10:28) It definitely starts with self-leadership. I mean, it's organizations, for sure. I do a lot of work within organizations, but it starts with the self. And I know you said earlier that you need to change the environment, sure, and I wholeheartedly agree. But I think you can start with an individual and say, "Hey, if you're feeling this way or if you're feeling incongruent with your environment, let's first get to know who you are. Maybe you're an agent for change. Maybe you're the person who has to come in and start to ask questions and start to raise the hand and say, 'Something's not right here. Maybe we need to start having more conversations about how we shift this environment.'" I think that's one of the things that's really challenging. And when people don't feel that empowerment to be able to say, "Okay, I'm in this world that doesn't fit me," and ultimately, "I'm not gonna do anything about it because I don't feel like I don't have the power. And maybe I just feel like if I just get along with everyone else or just stick in line, it'll be fine." Well, that's not fine. Ultimately, that starts to lead to burnout and, ultimately, a life that you really don't feel proud of.

(Joel Beasley at 00:11:42) I like what you're sharing. You're sharing self-awareness first. And then from that position, you can decide, "Do I need to go to circle world, or is there—now that I know about myself and I understand the dynamics of what I'm currently in—is there some way I can be useful here, or can I not?"

(Tony Martignetti at 00:12:02) Yeah. And especially because circle world, as much as it sounds great, it's hard to find. You know, let's be honest, it's hard to find the world where you really truly belong. And oftentimes I say you need to create the environment where you belong. You sometimes have to create your own belonging because of that. Because we could search forever to find the true people we belong with, but sometimes it starts by just getting out and talking to the people who you're with and finding your own little group of people who you connect with. And then it becomes, almost like—I shouldn't say an infection, but in a way—to kind of shift the way things are in an organization.

(Joel Beasley at 00:12:45) Now have you had the opportunity—he's touring the talk right now. I just got to meet him Friday. But have you heard the We Who Wrestle With God talk by Jordan Peterson?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:12:55) No, I haven't, but I'm a huge fan.

(Joel Beasley at 00:12:58) Oh, okay. Yeah. I got to meet him Friday. I was, like, so excited. I got some pictures with him. I can send them to you. But yeah, he—I think a lot of the stuff what you're talking about is reminding me of his talk that I just heard. And in the context of having the self-awareness, in the context of your aim, like, what are you aiming at? Because if you say, "Okay, well, you gotta know yourself to know if you fit into the workplace, but why?" Like, why are you there? Like, what is your aim? And then I have found that that's an incredible driving factor for me, and it brings an incredible amount of energy when I'm really focused on what my aim is. So what's your aim, Tony?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:13:41) Well, for me personally, my aim is all about creating places where people feel connected because I know connection at the core is what drives people to make an impact and to innovate, right? I mean, in organizations, we always talk about the bottom line, making progress and making a profit. Well, all of that comes from people feeling connected to each other. And when we don't, we're leaving a lot on the table. And I'll share something that might resonate with you. There's an author and thought leader named Todd Henry who wrote a book called Die Empty. Are you familiar?

(Joel Beasley at 00:14:18) I like them already.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:14:19) What's that?

(Joel Beasley at 00:14:20) I like them already. That's an apt title. I like it.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:14:23) Yeah. But I think what I love about it is that this—his concept is, you know, the most valuable real estate in the world is the cemetery. And because of this idea that so many people go to their graves without actually letting their song be sung. And I think that idea that we want to be able to make sure that we're enabled and empowered ourselves to share all the ideas we have. And if we allow other people to hold us back, that's not serving us. It's not serving anybody, really. And I think that's what we're looking for. My aim is to have people feel safe and connected in a way that allows them to share all the ideas that they feel they have inside of them.

(Joel Beasley at 00:15:07) The hard part on that journey of self-discovery is just because you decide you want to know it doesn't mean it's immediately available on tap for you.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:15:16) 100%. I agree. Yeah. You have to allow yourself to have the patience, commit to a process, and know that anything that's worth doing is gonna take effort. So I think if you are looking for quick fixes or any kind of, like, fast passes, you're gonna be sorely disappointed by that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:15:43) Yes. I am a firm believer that if I want to do anything, my level of commitment needs to be at a thousand days. You've gotta do a thousand days because that's just what it takes. Like, when I got into this podcast stuff, we're almost ten years and a thousand episodes into it. So I'm very excited about that.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:16:04) It's amazing.

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:04) I know. It's crazy. But when I got into it, I was like, "Alright, I'm just gonna do this because I'm interested in helping leaders grow, and we'll see what happens." I thought it might land me, like, some really cool VP of Engineering or tech leadership job. Turns out this became the business. And so for me, it was better than I could ask or imagine. I was like, "This ended—following that thing that I had this interest in that I—" you know, when I started—and I know I'm talking a little bit more than I usually do, but I'm excited to talk with you. But when I started, my daughter was just born. I had just sold a company, so I had no active income. I just had savings. Had my first child there, just bought a house, and I was like, "Yeah, I could go work at AI startups or build something like that, or I could just build relationships."

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:54) And everyone told me I was an idiot. I remember the two weeks where I told everyone what I was doing, and they're just like, "You're an idiot. You're an idiot. It's never gonna work. It's never gonna work."

(Joel Beasley at 00:17:02) It's never gonna work. And it worked.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:17:05) Well, I love that you shared that. I mean, there's something about that which I can really relate to. The sense of trusting in yourself and also committing to this idea that it's not gonna be perfect straight out of the gate. And maybe yours was, but I mean, for me—

(Joel Beasley at 00:17:20) No, it wasn't. Yeah, I mean, it took 200 episodes before I made a dollar. It took two years and 200 episodes before I made a dollar.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:17:27) Yeah. And I have a podcast myself. It's called The Virtual Campfire, and I'm 250 deep in my episodes.

(Joel Beasley at 00:17:35) That's commitment.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:17:36) Yeah. And I will say that it has been the most rewarding journey that I've been on because of the fact that I get the chance to have these conversations with some of the most remarkable people. And they're not the people who you think are gonna be remarkable, not the people with the big names. They're people who just are willing to be vulnerable, to share insights, and really, for me, those are the people who are gonna be able to relate well with the audience.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:08) That's been one of the most positive experiences that I've had, is this idea that when you go about life, there's these handful of people who are at the top and they share this great advice. But the amount of amazing, unbelievably brilliant advice that I get from people that don't work at big companies and don't have big names is just fascinating. It gives me hope in humanity. It's like everywhere, there's all of these individuals who are incredibly well connected and understanding of who they are and what drives people and how things work, and they're out there just helping and sharing just to help. And so for me, I was like, that made me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:18:50) Yeah. Me too. Yeah. I mean, we're in some simpatico here, if that's the right word. But I think that's definitely feels right.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:58) Let's give a shout out to your podcast again, so people who are listening—where can they go subscribe to?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:19:03) Well, it's on all the platforms, all the hosting platforms, but it's called The Virtual Campfire, and you can also find it at my website, which is ipurposepartners.com/podcast.

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:16) And what was the day that you were sitting there and you're like, "I'm gonna do a podcast"?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:19:23) Yeah, it's a great story. I'll share briefly. It's actually in my book too. But I didn't even listen to podcasts before I started a podcast, so, you know, it's blasphemy for me to say that, but I'll say it. I thought that I was gonna bring together people into an actual space of conversation.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:19:44) But, you know, because of the pandemic and because of this idea that I really wanted to have more in-depth and deeper conversations with people, the podcast became the only vehicle I could really make that happen. So that was the moment. And at first, I was like, "Gosh. This is scary. I don't know how I'm going to keep people's attention, how well I'll be able to host, all those things."

(Tony Martignetti at 00:20:11) And luckily, I just, with a lot of things, I took the leap, the leap of faith, and did it, and I'm so glad I did. And part of it was also just the concept of making it this campfire concept, which really is about open conversations, you know, conversations about people's stories and journeys. And then it didn't have to have this structure that had to be so concrete. And the more I let go, the more it became better.

(Joel Beasley at 00:20:45) And I agree with you, by the way. My experience with podcasting before doing a podcast was almost zero. I had heard of Joe Rogan's podcast before. I might have listened to a clip or something. Because remember, this is like ten years ago, right? So I was doing interviews with people on a book I was writing, just asking them questions to see what they were like. "Oh, I'm gonna share this story. Do you think this is good? Do you think it's accurate as a tech leader?" And those conversations were so fun.

(Joel Beasley at 00:21:16) Somebody said to me, like, "Hey, you should make those a podcast." And I said, "A podcast?" And they're like, "Yes." I went and hired somebody who knew how to make podcasts, and I, you know, did it. And then for me, exactly, I agree with you. My aim was not to—podcast is like a technology, and my aim was not the technology. The technology is just a vehicle to achieve the outcome I'm looking for. And the outcome I'm looking for is to get to spend time with the greatest minds of our time. Right? Like, that's the outcome I'm looking for.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:21:47) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:21:48) And so that could take the form of YouTube, smoke signals, you know, TikTok, Twitter, whatever it may be. It's not about that. And I don't even really care about the audience that much often. I do in planning meetings and stuff like, "What do people like and respond to?" But I don't think about them a lot. What I think about is I am satisfying this desire and drive that I have within me that's etched on my heart to engage with these people and understand their experiences.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:22:18) Yeah, I think it's great. I mean, honestly, it's funny how you say that because, you know, when people write a book, it's kind of the same way. You start with not necessarily with an audience in mind, but you think of yourself. What is the book that you most wanna read? And then you write that, and as you do, you realize that it becomes this really powerful force that starts driving you towards writing a great book, and then the book becomes something that other people resonate with because they're resonating with you. It's an audience of one. Yeah?

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:50) And you're right. Life is beautiful because it works both ways. If you have no idea what you wanna talk about, but you know the group you wanna bring value to, you can interact with the audience to figure out what a show could be. Or if you are really driven to something, you can figure out how do I package that so it's useful to somebody, but also achieve the thing that I'm driven to do.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:23:13) Yeah. It comes back to what we were saying earlier, this idea that if you feel like you don't fit in, you know, create your own belonging. In many ways, that's what we've done, like we collectively have done, you and I. In many ways, we try to find ways to create a belonging for other people by creating this space. And I think that's great, and hopefully people feel that, is that we're not trying to over-orchestrate, but instead, just be very authentic and real, so that other people feel like this is a space they wanna be part of. And if they don't like it, if they feel like it's too phony or what have you, then they're gonna be pulled away. Would you agree?

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:55) Yeah. A hundred percent. So you have—in the spirit of authenticity and having fun here as podcasters, as storytellers—we have the story. Like, here's my background. You know, we share it often very similarly on interviews and things of that nature.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:13) But you've done 250 episodes. So you have an audience and you have that 10% that's like loyal following audience that's gonna listen to pretty much anything that you do. Can you share a story or a shade, a perspective of your normal story that you tell, but like an aspect of it that you've never shared before in your 250 episodes?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:24:35) Wow. That's a good question. And so, honestly, because of the fact that it's not really about me, it's about other people's stories, but I will share parts of my journey which people don't know.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:47) Okay.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:24:48) So, growing up, I came from a family of immigrants. My dad came from Italy, my mother from Lebanon. And one of the things that was interesting about the work that I was doing as a young adult, outside of my normal path, was I built houses. And, you know, it wasn't something that I chose. My dad chose it for me. It was something that he did as a hobby for himself.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:25:19) That was not his main job either. But over time, we built over eight houses in my life. Eight—I shouldn't say eight houses. It was actually three buildings and five houses. And it was really amazing because I learned so much about what it takes to build things, and the types of people who are involved, all the different parts of the trades that have to come together to make a structure. And I learned a lot about community and also learned about trust through this work that I did.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:26:00) And I never really—I never share this because it's something about how organizations come together even when they're coming from different places and different paths, and how do you build something amazing in the process of doing that. So when I think about what I'm doing now, you have a lot of people coming from different functions and trying to piece together an amazing product or an amazing project, or maybe it's, you know, selling a new drug, whatever it may be. When I say drugs, I mean therapeutic because that's the industry I was in. You know, you're always having to rely on other people, and so the best thing you can do is make sure you have good relationships with them, and that you build trust because trust is the foundation of any good product that you're building. And so I just learned that early, early on.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:26:53) I didn't really know it, and this is the first time I'm sharing this, this concept.

(Joel Beasley at 00:26:58) Where did you build those buildings at?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:27:00) Mostly in the North, in New England area, in Massachusetts area. We had built two houses down on the Cape Cod, which has been a vacation home area we've always been going to growing up.

(Joel Beasley at 00:27:14) Oh, nice. And so your dad was a contractor?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:27:18) No, his day job was owning an alarm company that basically did alarm systems for all different types of companies, both residential and commercial. But he had always had a passion for building, and so we did that all along the way. In fact, I learned how to do electrical wiring, I did, you know, plumbing, I did all types of things that you'd think that I was gonna be a tradesman. But, you know, he was trying to teach me these lessons early on that, you know, to go to school, you know, get that education, and figure out ways to use my mind in the right way.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:28:00) And not to kinda discount any of those trades, but also, it's great to be able to have those skills, you know, to be able to know how to use my hands to build things. And so I feel like I've been able to play in so many different arenas, and I utilize those skills in different capacities. I call it curation of different experiences to bring them together to actually help people do things.

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:24) And then how have you changed over your 250 episodes?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:28:30) Wow. First of all, I've realized more about who I am. I've realized through other people's stories that my story is not quite as different than others. There are uniquenesses that are there, there's unique parts of my story, but there's also parts that I can relate to that people have gone through. And I feel less alone through these connections.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:29:00) So that's been wonderful, to be seen. I mean, I'll just give you an example. Like Jerry Colonna, who's—I know him. Yeah, Jerry, we had a conversation, and, you know, just having this real emotional connection with him around, you know, him seeing me, and saying, like, "You know, I really feel you're an empath. There's something about you and I that we come from this similar type of place."

(Tony Martignetti at 00:29:29) And him saying that really felt real. He saw me. And I think that's something that in my journey, it's great to be seen.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:42) When you were doing that talk, you mentioned this data scientist, and I think she was a violinist virtuoso, some brilliant violinist, right? I hope I got that right. Why would she hide that? That's a weird thing to hide.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:29:57) Yeah. I mean, first of all, it also has a—there's a cultural nuance to that, which is to say that, you know, in some cultures, they just don't talk about things, you know, their personal lives in the workplace.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:10) And so, do you know what cultures that is?

(Tony Martignetti at 00:30:12) It was an Asian—she was Asian, and she just, she was quiet, and she didn't really speak up about who she was in the workplace. And I was like, "Wow, like, you're brilliant, and I think that what you do is just so cool and amazing, and the fact that you don't share that, I think, is really unfortunate." And when she did, I just saw this person start to open up and become more—I'm not saying it's just like, you know, it's all, I'm not trying to be biased in terms of creating an—

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:43) Oh, we're being biased here today. Okay.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:30:45) Yeah, but I'm just saying, I think it just was the part of her nature of being this person who stays kinda small, even though she was brilliant, not just in the work she does technically, but also in her creativity. And so I encouraged her to share. And when she did, she started to open up. I mean, you could see that she would come to our coaching sessions and she would tell me, "It's like, oh my gosh, like, I had a few colleagues of mine come to my concert." And I'm like, "That's so cool."

(Joel Beasley at 00:31:21) Yeah. Nice. That's awesome. And, yeah, sometimes they just need a little encouragement. I know, obviously, I do tech podcast, right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:31:28) I know so many people who are incredibly brilliant, but they just have a low appetite of words per day. Some people like to speak a lot and some people like to speak very little externally. But their brains are usually going crazy. I find quiet people have incredibly high internal dialogue.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:31:47) Yeah, and this is not about pushing people to talk more and, you know, kind of be a blabbermouth, but it's really about making sure that they're having quality interactions, building connections that are gonna be meaningful and not shying away from it so that it becomes a situation where they feel like they should be saying things or should be feeling something different and then just feel completely shut down from all the things that are happening around them. That's what we want. We don't want people to feel shut down. And I think the key thing is to encourage people to open to others wherever they feel like it's comfortable.

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:26) I like you because you're a conduit between people who maybe want some change or know that there should be some change, but they don't know how to get it or they're a little shy or they're not exactly quite sure how to play it out because you run around preaching safety and openness. So when I hear you, if I were to ChatGPT analyze it, it'd be like, this guy makes people feel psychologically safe, open, and basically is like, "Hey. You can come here," which is its own function. Right? And it has its own need.

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:57) And I like that you do that because what you do is you get to interact with people at the intersection of massive potential.

(Tony Martignetti at 00:33:10) I love that you put it that way. I'm gonna capture that sentence and put it in my website. No, I love it though, because I think it really hits the central piece of what I'm all about, truly. And I think because I had, you know, starting from where we started, I wasn't feeling that way. And so now, the gift I get to share with others is this feeling of I don't want to hold myself back, nor do I want other people to feel held back themselves.

(Tony Martinetti at 00:33:40) And even though sometimes it can feel uncomfortable sharing things about ourselves, I think the best thing you can do is to lean into that a little bit and say, how can just one little thing, one moment of courage, as I call it, create that momentum that you need to live the life that you want? And I'll just share a quick quote that I love, and this is one that has helped me a lot in my journey. This comes from Peter Bregman. If you're willing to feel everything, you can have anything. And that quote, and I'll repeat it again because I think it's so beautiful, if you're willing to feel everything, you can have anything.

(Tony Martinetti at 00:34:23) And in that quote, I think, is this idea that if we lean into all of the parts of our humanity, really, we can experience so much more than what we've had before. That means discomfort, going into the unknown, and realize that, sure, we're going to have some moments of suck, but we're also going to have moments of absolute joy in that process.

(Joel Beasley at 00:34:52) No, I love what you're saying. I got to be honest, from your TED Talk, it came off a little like padded corners. Right? But talking to you here, you're like, no.

(Joel Beasley at 00:35:02) You're pulling no punches. You're very direct. I very much enjoy it. Now in the effort of, in the theme of our entire conversation and achieving our aims and what you're doing, what is the next stage for you? So right now, you built a business. You're helping create this change within this company. I'm assuming you're under 100 employees. Right? Is that correct assumption? Yes.

(Joel Beasley at 00:35:26) Okay. So what is your aim currently, and then what does it look like if you were doing your aim in the most maximum way possible?

(Tony Martinetti at 00:35:40) I love that question. I love that question. You know, my current aim is to continue to work with organizations, but in a more in-person fashion. I like to get into this program I developed called Campfires of Connection, which is all about coming together, getting people to share more of who they are, but together, and in person, ideally, if possible. It just, there's something about that in-person connection that you can't replace.

(Tony Martinetti at 00:36:17) And in the getting to know each other together, allowing them to accomplish more of what they're looking to accomplish as an organization. So this Campfires of Connection is a program that I just put together as a leap from my most recent book, which I published in December. So that's what I'm up to now. Now, if you think more broader, and as you said, the maximum impact I'm looking to create is I want to have this idea of creating campfires inside of organizations to be something that, you know, millions upon millions of people can do on their own, to being able to enable them to say, how am I creating our internal campfires inside of organizations? To ensure that if we don't like what's happening here, we're able to create connection within this place that allows us to create a change in the right direction.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:18) How can that happen? How do you scale? Is your Campfires program something people can buy and just implement within their companies today?

(Tony Martinetti at 00:37:27) Not yet, but it will be. I mean, at this point, it's more of an, you know, I will show them the way first, and then once I do, I will start to certify people in the program.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:38) Oh, nice. Awesome. Well, Tony, man, I think we did it. I think we made a podcast. How do you feel?

(Tony Martinetti at 00:37:45) I feel great. Honestly, you know, just having, being on the show with you, you've got a great style and, you know, obviously it comes from experience and, you know, just thank you so much for having me on the show.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:56) Thank you so much for listening. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with a friend or you think would get value from it. And if you have topics that you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast, either add me on LinkedIn or send me an email [email protected]. Every time I get an email or LinkedIn message, it absolutely makes my day and inspires me to keep going.