Why Being the Best at Your Job Is Holding You Back with Bill Tingle, Executive Coach

(Intro Narrator at 00:00:00) Today, we're talking to executive coach Bill Tingle about why being the best at your job is holding you back and how to actually get ahead. You're listening to Joel Beasley, Modern CTO.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:18) What's happening, Bill?

(Bill Tingle at 00:00:20) Long time.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:21) Dude, it's good to see you again. When I read the idea of what you wanted to talk about coming on the show, I loved the title about why being the best at your job is holding you back. That's just begging to be ripped apart and understood. I want you to explain this to me.

(Bill Tingle at 00:00:39) Yeah, that's our tradition, right? That's how we grew up. That's how we were taught: being the best at your job. And what I mean by that, if you peel it back, is so much of our pursuit is being the best at what we do. And in technology leadership, it's often being the best operator—getting as good at being the best operator or being the best at managing a team, being the best at whatever is in front of you. And we think the way to promotions is how our results are going to show it: getting products out on time, working hard, going the extra mile, which is all valid, which is all good. But the thing I've been studying for the last couple years more and more and working with leaders is understanding politics in a healthy way, understanding the importance of visibility, the importance of relationships, and really connecting with the senior executive team is so important.

(Bill Tingle at 00:01:53) And a lot of times, people don't understand that is your job. I have clients when, part of my methodology or approach is to put together a communication relationship plan with the senior team. Some cultures, it's hard because they don't want to have a one-on-one or unless you've got something for me, don't reach out to me. But in most cultures, there's a doorway to get in and build a connection and build a relationship. And that is part of your job as a leader.

(Bill Tingle at 00:02:26) I was fortunate at Enterprise Rent-A-Car when I started that the executive that hired me—I was ready to build a data warehouse. It was like, let's go. I got my plan. I know how to do it. Let's get the team. And he pushed my document, my strategy document, across the table, and he said, "You're going to take the first 90 days and you're going to go out and meet people." I'm like, "Oh, this is going to drive me." You're going to build relationships. You're going to learn the business. You're going to get to know people. And it was the best thing that could have ever happened for me in that job. And, you know, what a great way to start. So that's a big part of it: the relationships, the conversations, how to show up, how to be seen as a partner. And a lot of times, people don't see that as part of their job.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:19) Let's start with what's the most common piece of feedback that you run into?

(Bill Tingle at 00:03:24) Executive presence is really common.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:27) What does that mean?

(Bill Tingle at 00:03:29) Right. And a lot of times when people come to me, they don't know what it means. And that's one of the problems—it's sort of a catchphrase, a bucket, like, "Oh, you need more executive presence." And quite often, they don't even know what that means. And so I've got some research. There's different competencies that go into that clearly. Communication is one. A person's integrity and their dignity, how they show up, how transparent they are. A lot of times people think about gravitas and how they show up visibly. I mean, clearly those are part of it as well. More often than not, it's in how you're showing up in your language, your confidence, your clarity of communication.

(Bill Tingle at 00:04:27) And I call it being at the right altitude for the group and not losing the group, especially with technology leaders. There's a tendency to not do any translation, just speak the jargon, and get into the details because there's an interest in being accurate and being correct and being right. And the problem is that might be true, but you've lost the audience. So those are some of the—and there are other people that wear their emotions on their sleeve. They just can't control their emotions, and they can't read other people's emotions, and I do a lot of work with that as well.

(Joel Beasley at 00:05:04) Oh, really? If I were to tell you, Bill, that you don't have a great executive presence or something like that, I would be saying it because I either don't trust the person—I don't trust them—or I don't want them representing me. So we talked a lot about what it could be on their side, but why the other person's saying it, I think, is important too. Do you think that's valid?

(Bill Tingle at 00:05:29) Yes.

(Joel Beasley at 00:05:30) Yeah.

(Bill Tingle at 00:05:30) Yeah, I think from an assessment perspective, I think trust in what you said. I used to work with somebody that I trusted this person to get projects done. I trusted them to do all of the operational work, but I didn't trust them to stand up in front of an executive group in the boardroom and give a strategic update or speak to that group. And there were some elements of executive presence that weren't there.

(Bill Tingle at 00:06:08) And trust is one thing, but then the ability to stand up and appear confident, be confident, communicate clearly. And I call it a dance. So I'm sure you've seen it when you're in a conversation, let's say a board conversation or an executive conversation. Everybody has a certain background understanding of the business, of technology. And speaking in a way that it's resonating with everybody, everybody understands. There's no digression because everybody's in this dance of conversation. And then you get all the way to the end. At any point in time, if there's digression or it's shut down—I mean, I've seen CEOs just shut down conversations because the person can't speak in business language that resonates with everybody. So yeah, I think there certainly is the manager's assessment that says, "Here's what I need from you from an executive presence perspective."

(Joel Beasley at 00:07:14) How do you coach that in someone? Let's say you come across someone, they're having a problem. Let's narrow it down to confident communication. How can you—it seems so hard for me. How can you coach someone to become better at that?

(Bill Tingle at 00:07:31) Yeah. One of the things I do is—this isn't in any order—one of the things I do is I role play. And then another one is I ask questions about what they're saying to themselves in these moments. And that actually comes before role play. So I had a client who was planning to get on a plane, go to a remote office, speak to a senior group of people on a topic that he was very confident about. Very competent, very expert. But what happened was when he would get on a plane, go to a different city, go into a new space in front of a bunch of executives, he would almost get this cognitive dissonance where he would get this confusion. It's almost like his amygdala would fire up, and his prefrontal cortex executive function would shut down, and he had this confusion, and he would just be like a deer in the headlights.

(Bill Tingle at 00:08:39) And so the first thing that we had to do was do some body work. So we got into some just breathing. Because if you feel threatened and you're stressed and your breathing goes shallow, the front of your brain will start to shut down. And I'm not a neuroscience expert, but there are neuroscience fundamentals in what I do. The other thing is he would tell himself stories. And so he had this story about all these people are—well, these are senior executives. These people are higher than me. Some of this was cultural background, which we had to work through. And so I gave this person a mantra. Well, we worked on a mantra because people have to come up with those.

(Bill Tingle at 00:09:24) And mantra is kind of a peculiar word for this, but if there's a story "I'm not good enough," then I gave this person a story when that came up, "I'm not good enough," because that's what was showing up. I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy of being with these people. I gave him a mantra, so when that thought came up—whether it was on a little card or he just had to memorize it—he would speak his mantra. So, he would keep going over that. So breathing, body, story, and then practice. And so we actually role played, and we role played from the very beginning. I would ask him questions. He would have to speak. We would catch filler words. We would catch—many of us, we use filler words, but we'll also start and then kind of go back a little bit and then go forward and go back a little bit. And so we worked through that. And the feedback was—and we worked—oh, by the way, it was a critical meeting, and we worked together. He wanted to work together three days straight, an hour and a half a day. Came back, and his proposal was accepted. And I thought, "Wow, this is great." It was just so cool. Because I thought there's no way this is going to be accepted.

(Bill Tingle at 00:10:46) And so that's one of those—yeah, after he came back and told me the story, I'm like, "Yeah, this is why I do what I do," because I couldn't imagine when he first met with me that he'd be able to do what he did.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:58) That's very exciting. Yeah. I'm always surprised every time I hear that one of the biggest fears that exists for people is public speaking. Because for me, I don't know what it is. I get it. Before I go on stage, I do get that excitement, but it's not debilitating. Some nights, I get it more than others, and I just tell myself, "Hey, this is what you were made for. You're going to have a great time. And if not, there's going to be another opportunity next week." And I just go out there and just do it.

(Bill Tingle at 00:11:31) You know, when I got out of college, I wanted to learn how to sing. I don't sing well, so don't ask me to sing, Joel. But I took voice lessons from this professional in St. Louis, and he used to be an MC at this theater in St. Louis. And this is back when Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis and the greats would come to town. And he had a night where he was going to introduce Judy Garland. And this is Judy Garland. And she's going to go out and sing. This is—she's just a virtuoso. She was so panicked. She was sick, so much stage fright, and she was almost sick, and he had to really talk her and work with her to get her out on the stage.

(Bill Tingle at 00:12:20) But when she was out there, she was phenomenal. And that story just reminds me of how we're all human, and we're all vulnerable, and we all have stories. And I think for so many people that the fear of speaking or anything like that—that didn't come at birth. They learned that. You probably had a background where that just didn't show up for you. It's not part of your story. You're very comfortable. You have this amazing podcast, and you can speak in front of a lot of people. But I think a lot of people have to really tap into the background, the programming, and kind of work through that to be able to speak.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:03) Yeah. For me, I'm not perfect, and it creeps up on me from time to time even with as much as I've done it over the past decade. But what I've gotten good at is when it does creep up on me, I tell myself I have certain talk tracks I tell myself. The first thing I tell myself is nervousness is just the feeling of excitement because you're about to change the world. Whatever I'm going to go out there and do on this microphone will change the world. And so these feelings that I'm feeling right now—that's just the fizzy in the water. That's just what happens before you change the world. So I tell myself that. I tell myself this is what I was made to do. And then I also tell myself that no matter what, there's going to be another opportunity next week. And so I'll just take whatever I learned from this and roll it forward. And then the last thing I do is I tell myself I'm going to die. You're going to die eventually. This is all going to be over. And at that point, it won't—this moment won't really matter on my deathbed. So let's just go do it and get it done.

(Bill Tingle at 00:14:05) Yeah. I love that. You know what I really like about that, Joel? And I've talked about this before on your prior podcast. We are creatures of language, and there's this intersection of our language and our nervous system and our body and our emotions. And so when you were in that state, it was language that you used, which intersects with emotion because emotions and language are always connected. They're always stored together. And you tapped into the power of that. We call that ontological coaching, and it's around your way of being. So it's really cool to see that you self-coached in that situation.

(Joel Beasley at 00:14:57) Well, you have to because what will happen—I found this early on—I found out that what will happen is if you start to feel that rumble of nervousness, because you can feel the energy of the audience and hear them. There's a thousand people out on the other side of that curtain, and you start feeling that. If you start focusing on it, it'll expand and consume you. It's this wild animal that'll take over and crush you. And so you have to have a way to just keep it low, just keep it down, diminish it, just explain it away, just talk through it, and just settle it. Because when you go out there, if your heart's racing too much, you've got to become chill because they can hear it. You'll be shorter in your breath. You'll speak faster, and you need to say, "Okay, this is my place. I control this situation. Even if I fail, this is just something I'm doing." And that way, it doesn't overtake you.

(Bill Tingle at 00:15:56) I like that. I like that. I've heard that before: whatever you give attention to expands. And that's tied to fear. Anytime you fear something, because you focus on it, it's just going to—no, you need to look at the opposite of that. One of the things that—this might be helpful for some of your listeners if they haven't heard it before—one of the things that I remember, I spoke at a conference, and it's the biggest I've ever spoken at, and I couldn't even see the back of the room. It was one of these big software conferences. And something that I did right before—I don't know if there's a name for it already, but I called it priming. And what I would do is before I went on, I talked to as many people as I could. It was like I was just keeping myself talking, keeping myself engaging with people. And there's a point where you're waiting, you've got to be quiet. But for the most part, as much as I could, I would try to be just talking to people. And I did a talk here in the DC area, and it was, for me, kind of an intimidating group, and I was kind of nervous going in. And so what I did as soon as I got to the hotel where it was at, I'm in the lobby. I'm just talking to as many people as I can. I'm priming.

(Bill Tingle at 00:17:10) You know, I'm just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And, you know, did two things. One is it kept my conversation system going, but it also kept my mind off the thing that I feared because I'm just talking to people. And it was almost like I was going to talk to some of these people, so I was pre-building a connection before I ever even got there.

(Joel Beasley at 00:17:31) Oh, yeah. That's a great piece of advice. I found this out. So I'll put some guardrails up. The context is I was speaking at, like, a conference, maybe 100, 200 people in the room, and they kind of come in, and I was just one of the many speakers that day in that ballroom or whatnot. What I would do is I would have the podium. I would kind of leave the podium, and as the people were coming in early, I would ask them, "What are you hoping to get out of this talk?" Like, you know, because the title is what the title is in the brochure, but everybody has a different idea of what that talk is going to be. And then I would just have this conversation all the way up until the room's basically full, and then I would jump back on stage. And then I would just make sure I would do my talk, but I would just put the emphasis on the areas that I had just heard the most of. And then everyone was like, "You're such a great speaker." I'm like, "I cheated. I cheated. I just found out what the audience wanted that day in that room," and it always changed too, Bill. Like, everybody always saw it differently.

(Bill Tingle at 00:18:27) Yeah. That's great. That's great.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:29) All right. So I want to keep going on this coaching stuff. Another, I'm going to skip the community stuff for right now because that was, like, reason number two. Reason number three people reach out, job transition.

(Bill Tingle at 00:18:41) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:41) Okay. Tell me about what that looks like and how they find you, how that whole conversation starts, and then what you actually do.

(Bill Tingle at 00:18:51) Yeah. I don't market it very heavily. I probably should because it's become a core competency of mine. You know, it started out as somebody I was coaching wanted, they were already coaching, they wanted to do a job transition. So I said, "Oh, I know how to do that." So I helped them and they landed a job actually in three weeks. So I felt, "Yeah, I'm pretty good at it." So in some cases, when I'm just having a conversation with people, you know, like meeting them on LinkedIn and then we have a conversation, especially these days, it's a very common need. There's so many people that are either wanting to get out of what they're doing or they're out of a job right now. It's probably the toughest market that I've seen in probably my entire career for technology leaders, I think. And so I find them through conversations. I got a call last week. Somebody called me that knew I was coaching and said, "Do you do this?" I'm like, "Yeah, I do." And so he found me. And I post about it occasionally. So sometimes if I post, the thing that I really just try to emphasize with people, and I still do, people still are not really embracing this, is somebody is out of work. They get laid off. They get let go, and they immediately go to what they know, which I understand it. Like, you know, somebody working for a company for ten years, like, "Oh my gosh, I haven't looked for a job in ten years." And back when I got my job, somebody called me because they knew and they're like, "I didn't have to do anything." There's a lot of that. People in the past, they just didn't have to do anything. There's always people knew people. And so now, people like, "Okay. For the first time in maybe my entire career, I have to go look for a job. And I have to," like, "okay. So I update my resume, check the box. I updated LinkedIn to the best that I know how. I checked the box. And now I'm applying for jobs on LinkedIn." Two weeks later, complete frustration, despair because it's not working. That's not to say people shouldn't apply for jobs on LinkedIn, and it doesn't mean it won't work. I'm just telling you that the supply-demand equation is not in favor right now of people that are looking for a job. And what I, so what I tell people I work with is, like, "Yeah, you should update your resume. If you want help with that, I can help you with that. Your LinkedIn profile, absolutely." And they're not the same thing, by the way. You know, we really get educated on what you need to do on LinkedIn. And then here's how to go about doing it. And it's just so different. And either people don't, there's people that don't know what to do, and there's people that once they find out what to do, they don't want to do it. Like, it's frustrating. It's tiresome. It's boring. And it's work. And it's work. And it's much more, it's much more like being an entrepreneur. Like, you know this. I know this, Joel. When I love corporate and all of a sudden, I've got to find my own, I have to make an offer, I have to find customers, I've got to talk to people, I have to sell, that's what the world of job search is now. It's branding, it's marketing, it's reaching out, it's talking to people, it's making offers, making it clear what your value proposition is. And it's a funnel just like everything else in business. It's you have to work the funnel and people get tired of it and, you know, and they stop. You know, that's one thing I've learned, especially as an entrepreneur is when you feel like stopping, you can't. You've got to keep going.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:44) When you stop, you die. So good luck with that.

(Bill Tingle at 00:22:47) Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you do.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:51) Burn through your savings a little bit. You'll get some courage. Yeah, some entrepreneurial courage.

(Bill Tingle at 00:22:56) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:57) Okay. So what do you tell people to do then? I'm going to share, like, what, look, I don't know. People do ask me. I'm not an expert. I don't study this. I don't coach it. I know what my default response is, but I'm curious to see how many similarities there are with what you tell people. What do you tell people to do when they are transitioning jobs as far as, like, how to get a job?

(Bill Tingle at 00:23:21) Well, it's a process, and there's a framework for it when, you know, and you can do this. But for me, the first step isn't update your resume. That's what everybody does. It's like, "Well, what are you going to put on your resume? Well, I'm going to list everything I've done. Oh, I'm going to list my accomplishments, and I'm going to put measurable quantification. That's what they, that's what I'm supposed to do." "Okay. Well, who are you? Like, what do you stand for? What's unique about you? What's your brand? Like, if you tell me in three sentences, like, why I should hire you, you know," and so I work with people. It depends where they're at in the process. But if somebody comes to me and we're going to start at the very beginning, we're going to work on brand, value proposition and offer. Just like if you're a product company. Like, who are you targeting? What's your offer? It's business. Right? And so I have a workbook. You can do it online that kind of helps drive out your brand, and, you know, we use AI with it to help speed up the process. So you've got your offer, your position, your brand. And then, "Okay, well, now we've got to get it out there." Like, you've got all these assets. And the thing I try to do at the beginning is just like a company, when we're working on your positioning and your brand, we're creating narratives and language everywhere from three words to a page. These are all narratives of Joel Beasley. And all of, just like at a company, all that copy is going to be used in your resume, in your LinkedIn profile, in your cover letter, in your communication, in your LinkedIn DMs and your phone conversation with recruiters, et cetera, et cetera. And so you get, and the way I do it is you're getting very aware of who you are as an offer, as a product, as a value proposition to market. And then you're using all that content in these conversations and your resume and your LinkedIn profile, which by the way, you know, nobody wants to create a one-page resume. But if you do it right, you could create a compelling one-page resume that's going to get you phone calls more than a six-page, all the details, and you're making somebody like, they're not going to go through all that. And so we've got the brand. We've got the marketing materials, LinkedIn profile, resume. And then you've got to be active on LinkedIn. You've got to be posting. You've got to be commenting on posts. You've got to, like, "Well, what am I going to," like, "Okay, I did my value proposition. What am I a thought leader about? What am I going to help people? What am I going to share?" And get all that content out there with all the keywords so that when an executive recruiter searches for digital transformation, Gen AI, whatever, whatever, whatever, they're going to hit you and, like, "Hey. Can we talk? I have a client that," I worked with this client a very short period of time. And we went through this and got, like, three calls, you know, and interviews, like, with big names. And it's not hard, but you've got to do the work. Right? And then probably one of the, one more thing and then I'll hand it back to you is the interview process. I've met people that I can talk to them for five minutes, and I know that they're not going to do well at an interview. They're just not showing up. They're not speaking well. They're filler words left and right. They don't, like, they're not clear about what they want. And I actually have a process. I build an interview framework where we take your brand, your marketing assets, a job posting, and we build an interview prep kit with questions to expect, answers you should consider, and then we do role play. And I ask questions. We record it. I'll stop and say, "Okay, you know, let's don't get all the way in. I'm going to give you some feedback now." And then we do two or three of these. And the market is so competitive right now that you need every edge you can get. And the interview, assuming you get to the interview, you don't want to blow it. You got all the way to the interview because it's competitive. You need to knock it out of the park and it's not just the right answers that get you the job. It's how you're showing up. Because people aren't interviewing you for your answers. People are interviewing you, like, "Do I want to work with you? Can I see you on our team? Are you going to bring value?" You know?

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:11) Yeah. That's good. I'm a horrible employee, by the way. I just want to put that out there. I have found, in my experience, for me, it's easier to create a business than to get a job, because I just, Bill, I have patience. Okay? I've got three kids, one special needs. Like, I've got patience. I don't have patience for corporate nonsense. That to me is just like, oh, it just drives me wild. I cannot fake being interested. And then the money you can figure out from there too. Like, I find the money would be actually like, there's obviously a requirement for money, but at these levels of executive jobs, like, it, for me, it's more about the interest. And if you've done a good job of saving and living within your means, you know, you should be able to handle the weather between.

(Bill Tingle at 00:28:57) Mm-hmm.

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:57) Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of research. If you do what you love, you can make a living.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:12) Oh, dude. There are people through this podcast, Bill, I have met people that make money, and they, there's a dude that makes, like, $200K a year, and he had a blog about Cheetos. I'm like, whatever you're interested in, you can find a way to make money from it.

(Bill Tingle at 00:29:29) Yeah. Yeah. There was a person that's in a, I'm part of a, I guess you call it a mastermind group. It was a person that has a dog walking business. And you'd think, "Oh, you know, that's nice. Dog walking business." But this person does several million a year.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:44) Uh-huh.

(Bill Tingle at 00:29:44) And loves dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever, I'm sure you have, heard of ikigai?

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:57) Yeah. Oh, that's been, like, yes. That's been in my life for, like, fifteen years.

(Bill Tingle at 00:30:02) Yeah. I figured you were aware of it. I mean, most people, like, mention it, like, "What is that?" And I've actually used that, and it's, like, when people just don't have clarity. Like, they just don't, they want to do something, they just don't know. It's one of the tools I'll use. And I've actually, and maybe there's applications for it now, but I actually use AI with it too because AI is aware of it, and you can interact with AI to kind of get at your ikigai. And it's very effective in helping people kind of get to the heart of what their love and purpose in life is.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:34) It's a great framework. And the only thing I would share to add to that would be it can change over the course of your lifetime.

(Bill Tingle at 00:30:46) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:46) So it's something you can run more than once.

(Bill Tingle at 00:30:49) Yeah. I would imagine you could even have multiple models of it. Right? Like, especially, I could imagine you. You and I have had conversations about things you worked on in the past and, you know, like, I could see for me, at some point where I had, you know, maybe my current ikigai around coaching and helping people achieve better lives for what they say is a good life. And then music, like, there could be an ikigai for music too. Right? You could have more than one at the same time.

(Joel Beasley at 00:31:22) And I almost always find in my friends who have made it in one space, if you make it in one space, if you master one thing in life, the money is there somewhere. And then they almost always go on to do, you'll find all these actors that are now touring musicians. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Because when you master something, resources come with that mastery. And then it gives you this new ability. Like, I can go master something that doesn't have an economic association to my survival. You know, I've got the foundation set to where I can go do something that doesn't immediately generate revenue. Now that to me is, like, awesome. You know? Yeah. That's a fun place to be.

(Bill Tingle at 00:32:06) Yeah. Especially when you get a following. You know, I see people that they mastered one area and they've got this huge social network following. Well, now those are all people that have an interest in other things that they might offer, you know, if you just...

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:19) Yeah. Yeah. Look at the Kardashians.

(Bill Tingle at 00:32:22) Yeah. Very good example. Very good example.

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:25) All sorts of products. There are billions of dollars coming out of there, and it's a little empire they've got going on.

(Bill Tingle at 00:32:30) Yeah. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:31) Yeah. Me over here, we've slung some leadership books and some basic stuff.

(Bill Tingle at 00:32:39) I, before I forget, Joel, I have a client. I don't like to say I have a favorite client. All my clients are special in their own way. But I have a client who I could actually say is one of my favorite clients, and he found me through your show.

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:56) Oh, really?

(Bill Tingle at 00:32:57) Yeah. Nice. Yeah. And we still, you know, we're not working together now, but, you know, I've seen his progression and his success and, you know, he moved and he's got a baby now and, like, we're still friends. And, you know, so not only did I get business from you, thank you, through your platform, but I have this really good friend. So thank you.

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:20) See, now that makes me feel good. Oh, let's do that plug too. Bill, for people who want to learn more, connect with you, potentially become a client of your coaching services, what should they do?

(Bill Tingle at 00:33:31) Oh, several ways. You can go to my website, tingleleadership.com, or hit me on LinkedIn, B.G. Tingle on LinkedIn, and or send me an email at [email protected]. Would love to hear from you.

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:45) Excellent. We'll put some links on the show notes as well.

(Bill Tingle at 00:33:47) Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you.

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:50) Well, man, we made a podcast. How do you feel?

(Bill Tingle at 00:33:53) Good. I always enjoy our conversations.

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:56) Thank you so much for listening. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with a friend or colleague who you think would get value from it. And if you have topics that you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast, either add me on LinkedIn or send me an email, [email protected]. Every time I get an email or LinkedIn message, it absolutely makes my day and inspires me to keep going.