Brad Brown CTO of Onemata

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:00) Today we are talking to Brad Brown, the CTO of Onemata, and we discuss using data to find your tribe, how Brad was ahead of his time with independent nation, and why it's better to get money from customers over investors. All of this right here, right now on the Modern CTO Podcast. Here we go. This is the Modern CTO Podcast.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:34) So I've got to ask, how do you say the name of this company?

(Brad Brown at 00:00:38) Onemata.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:40) And everyone in the world says One Matter, right?

(Brad Brown at 00:00:42) Exactly. You got it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:45) How did that come about?

(Brad Brown at 00:00:47) You know, we were looking for names that were six, seven characters somewhere in there. Dot-com was the main thing, and, you know, just kind of searched around, ended up going to all different languages to try to figure out languages that would actually work and that we could find the dot-com for. And came up with Maori, the New Zealand tribe, and found a lot of words that matched in that genre. So just started playing with those and, you know, put them up on the board, and Onemata was the one that stuck.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:28) So what does it mean?

(Brad Brown at 00:01:29) It means rich, fertile soil.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:32) Oh. So do you work primarily from home?

(Brad Brown at 00:01:35) No. I do have an office at home, but we have an office in downtown Denver.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:42) Oh, very cool. How did you choose Denver?

(Brad Brown at 00:01:44) So the way we started Onemata was that a friend of mine had started a business here in town. He's been in the staffing business forever and been my best friend for probably twenty years, and we'd never been in business together. And he had his own location. He's right downtown, right in a perfect location, right in the center of downtown. And he had started a staffing firm for salespeople, and, you know, he kept telling me how he wanted to have something differentiated.

(Brad Brown at 00:02:14) And so, well, you know, hey, I've got this technology I've had in different forms for a long time. I should probably demo it for you. So I came in and demoed it to he and his partner, and they said, "Oh man, let's incorporate that into what we're doing" and kind of changed the whole vision of what the company did. That confused the heck out of people because, you know, we were staffing and we had software, and, you know, were we a CRM? And so we ended up splitting the two companies up. And, you know, his office space—we're just in his office space, so we've got the use of his CFO, his HR, his space. Works great.

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:57) And then are you guys a big fan of Slack?

(Brad Brown at 00:03:00) We are.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:01) I could tell. Good job. Good job. I hear that—I always hear the little tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick. Oh, they like Slack.

(Brad Brown at 00:03:07) Yep. That's a good deal to communicate, right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:09) Well, communication is key to life, right? It is. Just ask my wife, she'll tell you.

(Brad Brown at 00:03:15) Yeah, I agree.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:18) So what exactly does—so this fertilizes soil, or what type of—what does this do?

(Brad Brown at 00:03:26) Exactly. Fertilizes soil. Yeah. So, you know, we like to say that we're in the divining motivated prospects business, which basically means that we're working to make the unknown known so our customers can get their cherished products and services into the hands of those who need and want their offerings. In other words, you know, we're trying to find your "who do you call next?"

(Brad Brown at 00:03:46) And, you know, this is a problem that I had. You know, if you go back in time, you know, I had an Oracle consulting firm, and I've been a mentor a bunch over a long time with different businesses. And, you know, I was in Founder Institute, and I was a professor at the University of Denver. And people always, you know, in all these different businesses are like, "Well, how do I find my customers? How do I go out there and find, whether it was, you know, restaurants they were looking for, or, you know, the sprinkler people—you name it, people are always kind of asking me that question. "How do I find all those people?"

(Brad Brown at 00:04:23) And, you know, I had written a bunch of software over time that, you know, from Android apps that were available for, you know, to find the nearest Panera or Starbucks or whatever you wanted to find, to then, you know, taking that and evolving it over time. When I started IntelliVideo, the video-on-demand company, we needed to find people who had video content and wanted to be able to monetize that content. And so, you know, the software had evolved over time to be able to find any company and then read through their website and find things that they're talking about.

(Brad Brown at 00:05:12) So if you take Rachio—it's a good example. They're a company here in town. They have an irrigation system. Think of it like your Rainbird that works for your iPhone. And so what we did for Rachio is, you know, we were able to go out and find all the guys who talk about sprinklers and irrigation in the United States. There are about 200,000 of those people out there. But what they care about are only the people who really talk about water conservation. That was kind of one of their key triggers. So, you know, we read through all the websites of all the sprinkler guys in the country—the 200,000 of them. And then, you know, we have an algorithm that allows you to put weight and, you know, increase score on different words and phrases, or things you care about, technologies they use, whatever it happens to be.

(Brad Brown at 00:06:01) And then it tells you, "Okay, you guys are going down to Dallas-Fort Worth next week. Here are the top ten people you should talk to while you're there."

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:09) So it's like Onemata: find your tribe.

(Brad Brown at 00:06:12) That's a good one. I like that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:13) It's kind of what you're doing, right? Kind of finding your tribe, your group of people, you know?

(Brad Brown at 00:06:17) Probably going to use that one. That's good.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:19) It's all yours, man. All free, no worries. I love it. It's like I spend a lot of my life learning and consolidating information, and then I make it simple for me to remember, and sometimes it makes for some good one-liners.

(Brad Brown at 00:06:36) Right. That's great.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:37) Because Jake later will be like, "Oh, we're doing the production schedule for review," and I was like, "Oh, who's the 'find your tribe' guy?" He's like, "Oh, that's Brad Brown." I was like, "We put him out. Yeah, yeah, let's go."

(Brad Brown at 00:06:46) That's right. Awesome.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:49) I like what you're doing, and only because I believe that it's effective and useful in the market, because we have so much information to sift through and contact databases aren't the way you can find your tribe. However, it is a good way to start with a list of websites to go scan.

(Brad Brown at 00:07:08) Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So we find the companies as the first point, and then, yeah, they always want to find contact data, or almost always. I mean, we're able to get the phone number and email addresses—we can scrape those off the website at the company level. But what people typically want is, you know, the VP of marketing or specific contact people. So it turns out that there are hundreds of data providers out there. We've talked to, I think, pretty much every one of them.

(Brad Brown at 00:07:42) And then we partnered with them, and we just call their API and we say, "Hey, for xyz.com, we need the marketing guy." And then we do that for a whole bunch of them and give a confidence score and say, "Yeah, all these people say that this is the right email for this person." And so, you know, we basically get the contact data from data partners.

(Joel Beasley at 00:08:05) Yeah. That's the way to do it, because a decade ago we'd have to have data teams go manually do it. And I noticed—all these—about three or four years, well, about two years ago I actually noticed that you can get this data through APIs, and I was so happy.

(Brad Brown at 00:08:21) Right. Yeah, I know. It's a beautiful thing. The other really interesting thing is that there's this—I don't know if it's a consortium or what you'd call it—but Common Crawl. So these guys have scraped all the data for—they read every website out there, and then they store it. And so there's petabytes of data out there available, and you can get access to it. Amazon publishes it on S3, so you have access to that data too. So I just started working with reading off of, you know, that dataset rather than going to each of the individual sites, because that's a fairly time-consuming process. You know, when you have 200,000 websites to read through, it's limited by your bandwidth, whereas—

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:08) Now is this—is Common Crawl built off of the Wayback Machine data?

(Brad Brown at 00:09:14) It, you know, it is. I think it's the other way around, but yeah, Wayback uses the Common Crawl dataset.

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:25) Oh, wow. Yeah, they probably just split up, right? Or had an early partnership or something, because the Wayback Machine has been around for a long time.

(Brad Brown at 00:09:33) It has been. Yeah. I always wondered that. How the heck—where are they storing all this data? Because it's a lot of data. Yeah. I can go back and look at all my companies, what they looked like in 1994.

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:46) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually—we have a couple of friends over at Amazon, and I was talking with them about how their internal structure is set up. And it's really unique because they all—all their products kind of operate as independent distributed teams, which is really smart because, I mean, that's how you scale code systems, right? It's how you, I guess, would scale all systems.

(Brad Brown at 00:10:08) Yeah. That's very true. Yeah. They have a number of public datasets like that. And, you know, back when I was in the real estate valuation business, all of the counties used to publish all their, you know, assessor data and make it available. It'd be great if somebody rolled that up and put it into an Amazon dataset, because there are companies that charge a fortune to get that publicly available data.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:31) Yeah. There's a lot—it's interesting. The world that we live in now with this whole "data didn't exist, now data does exist," and now we're in this interesting transition of everything from governments trying to open-source taxpayer data, right, because we pay for it, so we should have access to it. And there's all of these—these data—we're in data puberty right now. We really are.

(Brad Brown at 00:10:55) Good point. Yeah, yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:57) So I'm interested. I'm excited. I'm interested to get to watch it play out, and I'm also excited for it to be a solved problem, because I want—I'm excited for the next problem, like how we condense the AR into normal set of glasses into just your body organically. That's exciting. Yeah. I think that'll happen in my lifetime.

(Brad Brown at 00:11:19) I think so. I think you're probably right, from autonomous vehicles to you name it, right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:11:24) Well, if you think about it like this—you know, we didn't have electricity until about 130 years ago, and there are people that are a hundred years old. So, I mean, you know, going from electricity to where we are today with the number of satellites in space—I mean, just it's a lot to take in, to think about no electricity, you know, 130 years ago, right? And we were around—we were, like, prancing around for a while here on this planet. We just got it 130 years ago, and look what—look how many satellites we have. I mean, we have pollution problems in our satellite space with orbiting stuff, right? We have international treaties for space debris and everything like that. There's thousands and thousands of satellites up in orbit, right? So it's just so interesting. And then I'll have a conversation, I'll say, "Yeah, you know, I'm in my early thirties. By the time I'm sixty, we'll definitely have that completely organic VR-type situation where I don't have to, you know, actually go type in Google. I can just think about it, and the results will display to me somehow." That's completely possible in thirty years if you look at how everything's advancing so fast.

(Brad Brown at 00:12:30) That's true. Yeah, yeah. You wonder how that will affect Alzheimer's. And if you don't have to think about a lot of things, does it cause atrophy, brain atrophy, or the other way around—stimulation?

(Joel Beasley at 00:12:44) Right. A little bit of both, you know? And then the biggest question everyone's going to be asking is, will your CEO still have search engine optimization problems given his name is Will Smith? Will that just completely resolve itself, or will he have a whole new world of problems?

(Brad Brown at 00:13:02) That's right.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:03) Yeah. That's a challenging name to have in a day of Internet, right?

(Brad Brown at 00:13:10) You know, one thing he's always said is that people take his calls.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:14) Oh, you see, there's always the pros, right? "This is Will Smith calling." "The Will Smith?" "Of course, Will Smith." "I was in this way."

(Brad Brown at 00:13:28) It's so true.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:29) Yeah. So how big is your team? Like, where are you going? How are you growing? Are you dominating your world right now? What's the—

(Brad Brown at 00:13:35) We are completely dominating our world. We, you know, I like to start with a small team, and, you know, I've gone both ways. I've, you know, built—basically gone out, raised money, then you overbuild the team. You spend a bunch of money frivolously, and, you know, you think you're going to get to the finish line faster. But, you know, you can't have nine women have a baby in a month. I mean, so you literally, you know, when you're racing to get there—and I, you know, I learned this back when I was at Oracle—you know, when we had a project, you know, you can only go so fast. And so my preference is really bootstrap efforts, which means you're very efficient monetarily. And, you know, I've always felt that the best organizations and the best companies are those who are poor, and you can't spend a bunch of money, so you just are very efficient. So what we have in terms of team is we have Will, who's our CEO. We use his space, CFO, HR, all of those services.

(Brad Brown at 00:14:44) And then, you know, Will has a bunch of other companies that he runs and manages. And so, you know, we'll get him for some period of time, and then he goes and works on all the other stuff, much like probably yourself in terms of what you are working on. Then I'm the tech guy, building out all the everything, 100% me. I don't have any other people teams. I was doing 100% of the business for the first—I think it was till April of this year. And, you know, from sales to development to, you name it, working basically with Will on that. Then we hired someone for sales, Mike. And Mike is kicking butt on the sales front. And then once we had enough customers, we decided to hire an onboarding person.

(Brad Brown at 00:15:51) And Allison is running the onboarding, and, you know, that—again, removing sales from me was phenomenal because then I didn't have to—I still have to be on some of the strategic sales calls, but don't have to be out there selling day-to-day. And I don't—now I don't have to be on the onboarding discussions, figuring out, you know, what it is that people want to search for, what kind of companies, what do they want to eliminate, how do they want to sort, rank, search—all that stuff. So Allison takes care of that. That's our team. We'll probably, you know, keep it that way for a while. Will has decided that our next hire is going to be a professional comedian.

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:39) Oh, nice.

(Brad Brown at 00:16:40) So, you know, we're giving—

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:43) You this, Will, before?

(Brad Brown at 00:16:44) That would be great. Yeah, yeah, to go with Will Smith.

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:47) Yeah, there you go. Do Will Smith and Jerry Seinfeld. Just like that's a new rule at the company. It makes, you know, talent acquisition extraordinarily difficult, but worth it.

(Brad Brown at 00:16:55) It does.

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:55) Worth it.

(Brad Brown at 00:16:56) Right, totally worth it. Yeah, so yeah, he, you know, we're living in this stodgy world of data. And, you know, when you look at all the companies out there, there's so many people that are selling lists, and we're really trying to have a differentiated approach to how we go about finding your next customers.

(Brad Brown at 00:17:14) And you give us your customer list, we'll load it up, we'll find other people who are in the same industry that are talking about similar things. And so we're really trying to do it differently. So, you know, if you look at the website, they, you know, a surfer guy, completely different approach to that. If you look at our marketing material, hats, shirts, all that kind of stuff, Will has got a real flair for design. And, you know, he's really, he's got a great vision for, you know, where we're going to go. If you look at the logo, you know, our sort of bet, neither of us have any tattoos, but our bet to ourselves was that if we hit a $100 million exit that we each had to get a tattoo. And so hence the logo. You know, we picked a logo that would look good as a tattoo.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:11) That's the standard. Like, I've read in a lot of business books, that's how you're supposed to design a logo. That's, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:18) That's what they say. That's like the, no, I love it though. You can always, you can always, I haven't seen with the, I'm just kidding. You can always escape with like the henna tattoo, right? Be like, you know?

(Brad Brown at 00:18:30) I don't think Will's going to let me get away with that. No.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:33) Maybe blacklight tattoo?

(Brad Brown at 00:18:36) There, there are the ones that, that was something I came up with years ago was the whole idea of tattoos that you could remove because most people rethink their, rethink their ink, right? So the, but somebody has one that you actually, if you basically put some sort of light on it, it breaks it down just enough so that your body absorbs it and takes it away.

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:01) So you could—

(Brad Brown at 00:19:02) You could do that kind of tattoo. That would be the right kind of tattoo for sure.

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:06) I can see you've researched this. Like, I've got to find the, I've got to find the solution.

(Brad Brown at 00:19:12) Well, long ago, I was like, why, why do people get tattoos that, you know, that the eagle that looks like the parrot after a while?

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:21) Yeah. Well, I think it started with the tribal stuff, but the—

(Brad Brown at 00:19:25) It did, yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:26) We, I'll get the, I'll get a lip disk for you guys. If you guys had a $100 million, I will get the little lip, tribe lip disk. It will only be two millimeters in diameter. That's really small, right? Okay. Yeah, it'll be two millimeters in diameter. It'll be one of those invisible ones, but I will get it to support. No, I love, I love that you guys start, look, I'm a firm believer in the pretty much the only way to start would be a small group of people putting it together and being cash flow positive and then growing from your cash flow. Anything else is like cheating.

(Brad Brown at 00:20:01) Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, we, Will and I talked to a ton of people from a business advising standpoint, people looking for money. And, you know, we sit and listen, and then most of the time, oh, you know what's great is you don't need money. And they look at you. No, no, I'm here because I was hoping I could get some, you know, money to help. No, no, listen, here's why you don't need money. Get money from customers. It's way better.

(Joel Beasley at 00:20:33) I agree. It's way easier to get money. It's from, look, a lot of the people I see that do the investment thing and they really need it, it's because they're not as creative as they could be. Because here's why. So if you want, like somebody says, oh, how do you start a company without money? Well, the first thing is you create something that's valuable enough people will give you money for it, right? So the, you're, that just axe out like 50% of the ideas right there, right? So make sure somebody will actually give you money for it. And then how do you, how do you prove that? You go to potential customers and you say, hey, is this enough of a problem you would give us money? If they say yes, it's an amazing, it's a huge problem, we have that problem every day, I'm so glad you're solving it, here's some money, we'll be your first customer, you know, to help you solve it, right? If they, yep. And you go to maybe 20 companies, right? If you get it where like all 20 or all 100 companies are saying like, no, this isn't a big enough problem, no, we're not going to give you money, or they say, yeah, it's a big problem, but no, we're not going to give you money, your idea is not good enough. You need an idea that's so good that company after company you go to, and they're like, yes, we'll give you money for that. Yes, here's some money for that. And then you just presell your product with your first customers, you know, as long as you have like a little prototype. But you said you had a prototype and you showed Will and stuff, right? So you presell your first customers, and then you operate off of your limited cash flow until you deliver the product, and then you deliver the product because you're not having to even sell if you get first couple customers to front your first, you know, year of stuff. And then you add in people, and you already, the great thing about this model is you already know that you're going to have a whole market that actually has this problem and is willing to pay money for it. Not, I was out with my friends last night and we had this great idea, and we think that there should be an app that does this. Give me $250,000. We're going to build a prototype. I'm going to have a thousand people test it, and we'll see where it goes. It's like, no.

(Brad Brown at 00:22:34) Not happening. You're, you're speaking my language there. I mean, we, that's 100% of, you know, we, we listen to different things. We listened to a guy last week. He's like, well, let's see, I came up with this idea. This is what I'm going to do, you know? Well, great. How much are you going to charge? I'm going to charge, you know, $8,000 a year. Okay, great. How much is it going to cost you to build it? Well, I found somebody to build it for $8,000. Great. So you definitely don't need money. Go, you know, have, is there anybody out there who is interested in, you know, paying the yearly fee upfront? Well, I don't know. Okay, well, go talk to a few and find out. And so, you know, he did. He came back. Oh yeah, they signed up on the spot.

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:18) Great. Do it again.

(Brad Brown at 00:23:19) And so what's his next question? So are you guys willing to fund me now? You don't need money. No, but I, I do. I needed to do marketing. I need to hire sales guy. No, you're the sales guy. You go sell it. You aren't doing the development. So, you know, get, go presell this to a whole bunch of people. It's exactly right. I mean, I don't know why. I mean, I know a lot of businesses do take, you know, a lot of money to kind of get going, but, and sometimes people don't have the luxury of being able to work on it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:54) This is new, Brad. Like, this wasn't happening as much in the seventies.

(Brad Brown at 00:24:00) True.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:00) This is like a new thing because everyone got, sees the how much money the technology is making. And so you get the greed on both sides. You get the investors that want to give bunch of people money so they can make a bunch of money. They get the people who see that the investors are handing out cash. So they say, what's their prerequisite to stand in that line and get a chunk of cash, right? So it's just kind of like a, it's a, everybody's, it's a culture thing that's happening right now, and we're watching it happen. But there, this wasn't happening like at this scale with this popularity in the seventies and eighties. This is a new—

(Brad Brown at 00:24:33) That's true.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:34) 2000s.

(Brad Brown at 00:24:34) And, yeah, the interesting thing too is that it's so much easier on so many regards, right? Because like when I started Intellareal, it was 2005 time frame. And, you know, we were going to be the most accurate property valuation engine in the country. So, you know, that meant that I had to take all of the data from every county in the United States and, you know, put it together. And there's 110 million homes in the United States. So, you know, load that stuff up and basically, you know, run it through, you know, some sort of machine learning AI, you know, engine and then write my own engines. And, you know, 110 million properties and valuing them thousands of different ways takes a massive amount of processing. And so, you know, I came up with this whole concept of creating a grid of computers and, you know, dicing up the work. And, you know, it's kind of a MapReduce on my own. And so, you know, in 2005, I had to go out and buy the hardware to be able to do that. And so, you know, I pulled out checkbook and, you know, wrote and spent $30,000 on a bunch of Dell hardware and enough, you know, disk to be able to, you know, store it. And if you went over, you know, what was, I forget the limit, but it wasn't much, maybe six gig or something like that. You know, once you went over, it became hundreds of thousands of dollars you had to spend instead of $30,000. And, you know, in today's world, you spin up EC2 instance of whatever you want, whatever size you want. You try it out for an hour, see how it performs, shut it down. You're done.

(Joel Beasley at 00:26:17) Isn't it beautiful though?

(Brad Brown at 00:26:18) Oh my gosh, it's crazy.

(Joel Beasley at 00:26:20) I mean—

(Brad Brown at 00:26:20) The first business that we, we basically did fast fail on, it was this business, you know, to your point of going out and trying out the message. It was this company called Independent Nation where, you know, this friend of mine had the concept of going out to the political world and getting in front of, you know, politicians and coming up with messages that you could craft that, and then get a message to a specific audience of people. And, you know, it's a great concept because, you know, the swing voters were really the, they were deciding the vote every time. It wasn't the registered, you know, one side or the other. So, you know, it was how can we provide informed information from politicians directly to the people who cared about specific issues? It's a great, you know, it's a great concept. You know, how do you really provide good valuable information of what you want to know about a politician? And so, you know, we spun up EC2 instances, developed the whole, developed the whole thing. We went out and demoed it to a bunch of people. And, you know, he kept asking me, well, how much is this costing? I mean, these demos are amazing. You know, we're able to, we were able to say, okay, before you walk through this neighborhood, these are the homes you want to stop by, and we showed it to him on a map. And, you know, it's way ahead of its time. And, oh my god, don't worry about it. You know, I'll cover the, you know, computing costs. And, you know, it was literally an EC2 instance, spin it up, you know, for our demos, shut it down after. And, you know, the end result was that politicians could never make a decision. When we actually had a number of politicians lined up who were in positions where they, it was going to be the swing vote that was going to 100% decide, they wanted us to get to, you know, specific groups of people. We were able to find those groups of people, and they could not write a message to that group. Oh, that'll offend this group. That'll offend that group. That'll, so, you know, they couldn't do it. After a whole bunch of time, you know, of really investigating and talking to these politicians, we just shut it down. There's no cost. No startup cost, no shutdown cost. Okay, we proved it out. Didn't work.

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:52) Yeah. Now, now they have the Facebook. They can like micro target and bucket everybody into these real group, real small groups, and they can adjust their messaging accordingly.

(Brad Brown at 00:29:02) Yeah, exactly. No, that, yeah, that's a good point. That's exactly what we were trying to do.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:07) I was involved in like that project that for politicians micro targeting.

(Brad Brown at 00:29:15) Awesome. I'm—

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:15) Trying to say at least amount if possible.

(Brad Brown at 00:29:18) I understand.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:19) You know what? You get what? You know, that is not—

(Brad Brown at 00:29:21) It's just too divided.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:22) Yeah, it's way too. I was participating in segmenting messaging based on attributes, and that was the project, right?

(Brad Brown at 00:29:31) It's awesome. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:32) But it was interesting because it was exactly what you're, it's like you're just ahead of your time, Brad.

(Brad Brown at 00:29:37) We were. Yeah, we just needed Facebook.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:40) Yeah. Dude, this is great. It was so great meeting you and talking to me today, Brad. Thank you so much for your time.

(Brad Brown at 00:29:44) Yeah, same here.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:46) So if people want to find out more about you, how would they do that?

(Brad Brown at 00:29:52) A few ways. Send me an email. My email is [email protected]. They can find me on LinkedIn. I've got a blog that I haven't really kept up to date lately, but Bradley D. Brown.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:07) Great. Thank you so much for listening to the Modern CTO podcast. Share this, get the word out. Thank you guys so much. I couldn't do it without you. I appreciate it. You guys are the absolute best.