Sam Silverstein Accountability Expert and Leadership Speaker

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:00) Today, we are talking to Sam Silverstein, an accountability expert and leadership speaker. We discuss the origin of the accountability movement, the three pieces of information team members need to stay motivated, and structuring teams to create momentum. All of this right here, right now on the Modern CTO podcast. Here we go. This is the Modern CTO podcast.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:36) Great. So I was reading your bio. You're the founder of the accountability movement. I, right now, at this point in time, don't have a whole lot of knowledge of the accountability movement, but I really like the way it sounds, right? Sounds really smart. It sounds like something that when I hear that, I'm like, every company needs to have some form of accountability that works for them. And so I'm curious how, what the principles are of it, and then how do you apply it to yourself? How'd you create it? I just want to know more about the accountability movement.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:01:06) Okay. So I've been spending the last 26 years of my life working on helping people in organizations get better. And I had owned a manufacturing business and been part of some other companies when I wrote my first book 26 years ago and then started speaking. And what I noticed, actually about 10 years into that process, was that everything comes down to accountability. That was really at the core of an organization being better. It was really at the core of us as people, as human beings, being the best we can be. And that's where the journey started when that light came on. And then I started researching and writing and doing case studies and working with organizations. And it seems like literally for the last 16 years, every time I think I've got it figured out, man, I discover a new level of depth to what accountability really is and what it can be. And so the accountability movement for us is about building accountable communities by helping people in organizations know their values, live their values, and keep their commitments. That's what accountability is going to attach to. And so while I work with organizations and I speak for them at their annual conferences and we go in and do long-term developments, helping them build accountable cultures inside the organization, I also want to work in the community. And we have accountability roundtables in communities where we bring leaders together just to discuss accountability. We hold conversations and interviews. And the goal is to raise this awareness around what accountability really is and the power that it can be.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:00) No, that's really smart. This morning, I was getting ready, right? I wake up, like, 5:30 and start my day, do a little exercise, shower, make my breakfast, and I listen to motivational mashups, like different—there's this new thing on YouTube where everyone's taking all the different motivational speakers and they're mashing them up with high-energy music, so it's very engaging, right? For me, I really enjoy starting my day this way. And this one guy came on, and his name was Art Williams, and he gave this speech called "Just Do It." Have you heard that one?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:03:31) No, I haven't.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:33) Oh my goodness. This is an older one. It was like a clip from, I believe, the '80s, maybe the '70s, '80s. But it was just such an interesting clip. The way his voice sounds and everything like that, I suggest it. It's like this five-minute talk that he gave at a conference in the '70s or '80s, maybe to a large company, and it's called "Art Williams Just Do It" if you want to search on YouTube. But it was amazing because his answer to everything was, like, "just do it." And then when you're talking about the accountability network—like, oh, for some reason, they're joining together, and I'm just like, yeah. You just have to be accountable. That's the only way to do it. You just have to do it.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:04:14) Well, yeah. The problem that we run into is that we use a lot of words where we really don't know what they mean. And a lot of people throw that accountability word around and their definition and understanding of it may not be the way it really is or the way that it can be. And so a lot of times we find leaders see accountability as a tool. It's a mechanism. They hold it over people or against people to try and get something done. And you know this is going on when you hear the common phrase, you know, "I'm going to hold them accountable." Because when you hold someone accountable, if I tell you this is important and I'm going to hold you accountable, what does it sound like I have up against your head?

(Joel Beasley at 00:05:04) Yeah. It doesn't sound very friendly.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:05:06) No. It's like I've got a gun up against your head. You know, when you hold someone accountable, it's about you. When you help someone be accountable, it's about them, and leadership is always about them. And so at whatever level of an organization, if we really are growing to be the best leaders that we can be, we need to learn how to help people be accountable. And so we have to know what accountability is.

(Joel Beasley at 00:05:32) Preach it. I love it. You're speaking truth.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:05:35) Well, I thank you for saying that. And that's, you know, that's what we search for constantly here in my organization is truth. We want everything to be based on truth. I was having a conversation with my assistant, Sharon, this morning, and we were talking about the way that some things have been received by some of our clients. And she says they jump all over this because it's truth. And so that's the key. Here's how we see it in a nutshell. You're responsible for things. You're accountable to people. You're responsible for things. You're accountable to people. So my accountability is to you. I'm not accountable for a report. I'm not accountable to take the trash out. That report's not going to help hold me accountable or help me be accountable or anything like that. Those are my responsibilities, and I need to uphold and fulfill my responsibilities. You know, whether it's around my house or if I'm an employee of yours, I need to do what I'm supposed to be doing from a responsibility standpoint. If I don't, you should fire my butt. Why would you let me stay around if I'm not doing my job? Now accountability, well, that's a whole different thing. Accountability is keeping your commitments to people. And so now there's commitments at place, and there's always people involved. And if there's people, there's a relationship. And so accountability goes so much deeper than responsibility, but a lot of people haven't figured that out yet.

(Joel Beasley at 00:07:07) Oh, I'm loving you, Sam. This is awesome. All right. Yes. So I've found one of the best ways to get a group together when we're together, and we're going to be accountable, and we all need each other, and we're all working towards the same goals, is when everyone understands the why. It's like, this is what we're going after. This is the goal. This is how we exist. This is what we do. We eat, sleep, and breathe this. And when we all understand that, then we all are excited. You know? We got Jake runs off to edit the podcast, comes back. "Joel, look what I did, edit the podcast." Great. Joel runs off, and I prepare for the show. I do the notes, everything. "Look. We're going to have this best guest ever." You know, Sammy, Jenny's getting the guest. You know? Jackie's setting everything up over in her quarter so that we can all be successful and have money, and we all are going after the same thing, and we all know why. Because the why ultimately is, like, we love working with each other. This business is, like, the excuse to get to work together, and we need everything a business needs to do it.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:08:03) Yeah. Actually, see, the why is important, but, you know, when we work with an organization, a lot of times organizations have trouble with change. And what we've discovered, if they have trouble with change, they're having trouble with accountability. That's why everything just keeps coming back to accountability. But what we've realized is that there's three pieces of information that all people need some of. And it's like you might be a "why" person, but I might be a "how" person. And so when it comes to change or when it comes to an initiative or a movement or what you're trying to do, some people want to know why. Some people want to know how. Some people just want to know what. They just—you know, they love you, and you tell them what you want to do, and they're on board. They don't care why or how. You just tell them what, and they'll go do it. Now the key is everyone needs something. You might need why. I might need the how. Someone else might need the what. And then there's some of us that need the why, the how, and the what. But when you're communicating as a leader in those terms and you're providing that information, then what happens is you're being accountable to your people. You're giving them what they need to make good decisions, and then they're able to get on board. And then they're not stuck. They're moving forward, and that's how you get that end result. It's not just moving forward. It's a lot of times moving faster than the competition. Not because you're making snap judgments or bad decisions, but you're able to move quicker because you as a leader are providing the information your people need to be able to make decisions and move on to the next challenge.

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:54) Yeah. And you build that momentum as a team. You get those small wins consistently over and over and over, and then it becomes unstoppable.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:10:00) Exactly. Exactly.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:03) That's what we do here. I have a book for CTOs, chief technology officers, and one of the big responsibilities is how we structure code and putting together teams of people with code. And one of the things I talk about in my book, because it's not talked about in the industry as a whole, there's lots of methodologies for how to structure teams, but one thing that no one was talking about from a super technical perspective is structuring things, structuring your tasks, structuring your goals to create momentum. Like, if you have one goal and it's really far down and you don't have any sub-goals and it takes you three months to hit your goal as a team, everyone's just kind of like… But if you guys are hitting goals and, like, making things happen and you feel the sense of accomplishment day after day after day and that's carried over into the next day, then you build up this momentum. And that's how you get the teams that are big and strong and end up doing very well.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:10:57) Right. And another way to look at that is also celebrations. What you're creating with those sub-goals from a tactical standpoint, they're checkpoints. Are we on target or, you know, is the foundation laid? So now the foundation is in, we can start building the vertical support. Once the vertical supports are up, we can start putting the walls on, you know, it's like a house. But they also create what accountable leaders recognize as important is celebration. And it's celebrating not just at the end when that big goal, as you mentioned, is achieved, but it's celebrating all along the way. It's being able to have those things to celebrate today, tomorrow, the next day. And that celebration is positive reinforcement, and it connects with your people because they realize that you believe in them and that you as a leader understand that you're going to get your solutions through them. It's not going to come through you.

(Joel Beasley at 00:11:57) I've noticed that, and I can hear it in your voice too, with great leaders, they have this incredible ability to understand energy within groups of people or in the room, things of that nature. And not only can they understand and feel it, but they can create it. They can speed it up, make more of it, or slow it down to get more productive. Because you get too crazy, nothing's getting done. But if you're too slow and there's no energy, nothing's happening. So it's like—I find that great leaders are like these balancers of energy.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:12:31) Yeah. I've never thought of it that way, but I think that's pretty much on target. It's almost like they're conducting. They're not playing all those instruments that's making that beautiful sound, but as the leader, they're bringing it all together. And then they're supporting you and giving you what you need so that you can be successful. Because if you're successful in your job, I'm successful in mine, we're all successful, then the organization is successful and ultimately the leader is successful.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:00) I love that analogy. Because sometimes I see conductors who are trying to conduct and play saxophone at the same time. I'm like, put the saxophone down.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:13:08) Yeah. Focus on being a great conductor and let Susie over there play the sax. She'll probably blow you away.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:16) Oh, Susie, sax. Sam Silverstein. The alliteration is just back to back. I love it.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:13:20) It's too much. I'm telling you. It's too much.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:23) Oh, so this is what you do, man. You got an amazing life. I love it. You go around and this accountability thing, you just—you're an eye opener. It's like Sam Silverstein, the eye opener. You're like, look, like, check out that this exists, and there's benefit and there's value. And whenever there's value, you could convert value to currency. That's not a problem. So you bring this tremendous value to these organizations through accountability and allowing them to understand the accountability, specifying what the definition is, making it, like, not a negative thing and repainting the picture. And I'm going to clip that explanation of the accountability thing. I'm going to play it, like, over and over because it's so good. I'm going to tell people about it and say, listen, you have to listen to the way this guy, Sam, talks about accountability. It'll change your whole perspective of the term.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:14:17) Well, and that's my goal, and that's what the accountability movement, part of what we do, is all about is to raise that awareness. When you think about accountability being commitments between people, we look at things like very specific commitments that we tie to accountability, like a commitment to the truth, a commitment to what you value, a commitment to stand with you when all hell breaks loose. And there's 10 very specific commitments that we believe that if leaders make to their people and deliver on them, they're going to create an accountability between them and their people that will be rewarded with an accountability from their people back to them. And these commitments aren't necessarily something that you say. It's like my dad used to tell us all the time. I'm sure you've heard this. Actions speak louder than words. And, gosh, I heard it so many times. I think I might have, you know, it's like burned into my brain, but that's really what it's about. When you lead through your actions and those actions show that you're committed to the people around you, then you connect to them through those commitments. And there's a bond and there's a relationship, and they would rather die than let you down. And when you have that going in an organization, that organization is going to trounce the competition every single time.

(Joel Beasley at 00:15:46) Oh, yes. They will. I'm like a Sam Silverstein cheerleader now.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:15:50) Well, it's just important. You know, there are a lot of things going on in the world right now, and I happen to believe with all my heart that accountability is really at the core of solving those problems. They can solve problems on an organizational level. They can solve problems on a community level. They can solve problems, you know, on a global level.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:16:13) And when we're willing to say that a commitment is no matter what—and that's a book I have coming out later this year, and I'm not trying to throw out a shameless plug or anything.

No, do it. Yeah. But the whole idea is no matter what, it's a commitment. And then what are those specific commitments that we need to keep?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:16:32) And the commitment is not to get you the report by 10:00. The commitment's not to wash your car. I mean, all that stuff's fine and dandy, but there's so much more depth to what a commitment is between human beings. And when we discover that, we're going to discover our true accountability to each other. And when we discover our true accountability to each other, then those relationships are going to deepen.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:16:56) And what happens inside your organization, my organization, our community, our country—that's going to change, and it's going to change dramatically. And we see it in some companies. We see there's some organizations out there that do some amazing things and perform at an incredibly high level. Well, is that just luck? Why are they performing at a high level?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:17:20) You know, there's no shortage of products and services today. There's nothing out there that pretty much isn't a commodity, but yet some people have it figured out. And if it's not the product or service, then what is it? And what we've identified is it comes back to accountability and keeping those commitments.

(Joel Beasley at 00:17:40) It's the people, right? And the people that have those skills, right?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:17:44) Yeah. You know, you and I, if we're going to have a long-term relationship, we're not going to connect over a product or a service or a building or a piece of real estate or a car. We're going to connect through a set of values. You see, you and I don't even have to believe the same thing, but if we have the same values and we connect on those values, then we'll develop a relationship. And that's all we're talking about inside of an organization—building those connections between people through the values, because you're not going to build it through the products.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:18:19) And it's the same in a community, and it's the same on a global basis. Everybody can have their religion. They can have this. They can have that. They don't have to believe the same thing, but we do need to have a similar set of values when it comes to how we see people, how we believe we're supposed to be treated.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:18:37) And when you really create that set of values, you design that culture—either organizationally, community, or globally—people start connecting, and that's when the miracles start happening.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:50) I don't want to just keep saying I love it and yes, yes, yes, right? I don't want to be that guy. But how long have you been doing this? Over twenty years?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:18:57) Yeah. You know, formally, I formally started twenty-six years ago. Fifteen years ago, I realized it was accountability. But like I said, it seems like every five years, I discover a new depth to what it really is. And so we've gone from the physical side and the tactical side of accountability to the spirit of what accountability is, because that's really where the connection is between people.

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:23) So what did you start with? What was your intro to the world here? And I want to also know, from an actual business side of things, how you went about getting your first—your the birth of you—how you got your first relationships. I want to know about how you started.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:19:40) You know, I mentioned I had a company. I had a window and door manufacturing business. It was a family business. I was in business with family members, and things were rocking along and we did really well. And then we hit a rock, a bad time, and we did really bad. And then we did well again.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:19:57) But through all that, I started going to some seminars on sales that were led by a gentleman by the name of Tom Hopkins, one of the top sales trainers, you know, globally at that time. And he's still out there and so prolific in what he does. And I got to know him, and I really loved what he was doing and I loved the way that he impacted people's lives. And through one of our conversations over lunch one day, he said his career really took off when he wrote his first book. And I noticed that people were thanking me for advice that I had given them, and I didn't even remember giving them the advice in the first place many times. But I thought—yeah, I know, it's kind of crazy.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:20:33) I thought to myself, well, if I can have a positive impact without trying, what would happen if I tried? And so I said, well, if things took off for Tom when he wrote the book, I said, maybe that's just where I should start. And that's just the way that I think. And so I wrote a book. My first book was titled The Success Model, and it's actually still out. My publisher wanted it updated and brought it back out just a few months ago, and it's called The Success Model, and it's all about personal improvement and personal performance.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:21:02) And I sent a copy of that book to a large trade association, and they booked me to keynote at their conference in front of like 1,700 people or something. And so that's where I started. I had this book. I went out and I started speaking. And then over a period of time, I realized that it was far more rewarding than the manufacturing business was. And so when the opportunity presented itself, we sold that company.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:21:27) And then for the last twenty, I don't know, three years or so, this is what I do. I write, I speak, and then I work with organizations helping them actually implement internally in the organization what it is that I write and speak about.

(Joel Beasley at 00:21:44) That's amazing. I just, we just got this week the first—or the final draft that's going to go to print of my first book.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:21:53) Awesome.

(Joel Beasley at 00:21:54) So excited.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:21:55) I know. It's like a baby being born, isn't it?

(Joel Beasley at 00:21:58) Oh, it's been a year. Yeah. It's another nine months here. Yeah. So the way it started was I kept having these same conversations over and over with other CTOs.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:08) And I said, alright, well, I'm going to start a blog. And then I started outlining it and involving other CTOs and, like, you know, what topics do you want to hear? Engaging them to make sure it's the right stuff that they want to consume, right, because they're my audience. And then we started having these conversations about the book—or about the blog.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:25) Then we turned it into—I was like, alright, I'm just going to do a book because I think it'd be really cool. We had enough content for a book. It didn't need to be just a blog. And then started having conversations with the different CTOs about the different topics to make sure I covered them all.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:37) And then those conversations were so awesome. They were so interesting and engaging. So we started recording them. And then we're sending them back and forth to each other. Then someone said, dude, just do a podcast.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:47) I'm like, what? What? What's a podcast? I've heard about it, but, like, what is it?

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:51) Then I hired someone to help me with the podcast, learn how to do a podcast. We turned the calls about the book into a podcast, and then it was a weekly show. Then it went twice weekly, daily, twice a day, three times a day. Lost my voice. Then we had to back it on down to two a day, and then business started happening, right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:11) People started asking us to do stuff because they were hearing our content, and they're like, oh, this is smart. This is right. They're saying the right thing. So—

(Sam Silverstein at 00:23:20) Awesome.

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:20) Yeah. So then we had to back it down to one a day so that we could then spend the rest of the time that day responding to the business that came in and generating cash to grow the brand, right?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:23:31) Right.

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:32) So it kind of all happened unintentionally a little bit, but I intentionally rode the wave of attention. So when I saw that the CTOs were interested in talking about it, I was like, alright, let's talk to more CTOs because it's fun. Then I was like, let's find the excuse. So it didn't just happen. I was riding the wave, right? And then I was like, let's just keep pushing it. Let's see how far it can go. And so now we're starting this conference tour thing where we're going to go to different cities and do the show with different CTOs in large cities.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:24:06) Awesome.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:07) So we're excited about that. We're going to take this thing on the road.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:24:10) I love that. What a great idea.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:13) Right? Yeah. It just kind of happened. We were just brainstorming, and we're like, we love what we do. It would be cool if we put four or five more people in the office, grow the family, grow the momentum.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:25) Well, we need cash to do that. Well, how can we get cash? And then we looked at it, and we said, alright, let's—and then it just kind of happened. So we're pumped up about that.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:24:34) That's awesome.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:35) Yeah. So if a CTO is listening—well, CTOs are listening—but let's say that I make a hypothetical. You have a CTO, and he's got 600 employees, right?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:24:49) Mm-hmm.

(Joel Beasley at 00:24:49) At a company. And they're doing well, but he hears you, he likes you, he wants to know more about this accountability. What are some sort of quick tips you can give that that individual can go try and then be like, this is brilliant. I had a little appetizer. Now I want Sam Silverstein to come in and see what else we could do.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:25:09) Well, here's what we know. And technology is a fascinating field. I love technology. And, you know, we work with technology and engineers and lawyers, and they're kind of really focused on how they do what they do. And that's important.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:25:27) You know, there's a lot of intricacies, and there's a lot of details, and there's a lot of minutia that has to be taken care of, because one dot in the wrong spot, you know, and you're dead, right? And so what I would do is it's about stepping back, not looking at the what you do. And that's all important. I mean, the tactical side of your business is important, but you can buy a book to read about the tactical side.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:25:54) And most organizations master the tactical side. That's why they're as successful as they are. But if they really want to supercharge their success, then it's the other side of the organization, which we think is of equal value, 50% at least. And that's the spirit of the organization. That's the connectivity between people. Because we hear all the time, well, oh, we want a better customer experience, whether it's internal customer, external customer.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:26:19) Oh, we want more creativity. Oh, we'd love to see more collaboration and teamwork, you know. Or the number one problem we run into in organizations is siloed communication. Our people just don't talk to each other as well as they should. Well, all these things come down to the same issues that drive accountability within an organization.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:26:36) And it's that culture that you create as a leader. If you're a CTO, then in your department, what's the culture that you've created that people are living inside of? And it's only the culture that will inspire accountability. Accountability isn't mandated. It's not forced.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:26:57) It's inspired. It's encouraged. People choose to be accountable. They can never be forced to be accountable. And so I would say I would start by looking at the values, and this is just one little area.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:27:08) What are the values of your organization? Do they define—there's some very specific things they need to define, and one of which is internal relationships—and how are those values being lived? And when you look at the values of the organization and how they're being lived, if they're being lived completely a hundred percent all the time—and that is possible and we know how to do that—then what's going to happen is you're going to design that culture in a way that's going to allow you to get the results you want. So I would start looking at the values. I would start talking about the values.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:27:42) I would start communicating about the values. My last book, Non-Negotiable: The Happy State Bank Story—real, it's a true story about a real bank—talks all about how they use their values to create a bank that when all the banks went south in performance in '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, they were making money and their stock value went up. And let's face it, a bank is about as a commodity product as you can get. They did what they did through several things. One of which was their adherence to their values.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:28:19) Their values kept them on track. And so I would say to someone that really wants to create an accountable organization, one place to start to look is at your values. Do they define what character is for the organization? Do they define your internal and external relationships? Do they define what professionalism is?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:28:37) Do they define your commitment to the community? And are they lived a hundred percent to the point of non-negotiable? And when you just focus on that, a lot of things will start to happen. And so that's one great jumping-off point.

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:51) Oh, that's some value you're bringing right there, Sam.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:28:55) Well, that's the name of the game. Here's the thing with accountability, and I pretty much guarantee this. Everything that I talk about and everything I help customers and clients with, it's very simple, but I guarantee you, it's not easy. And if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. And it means making tough decisions at tough times.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:29:15) And that's something that we recognize as part of the process. But when you learn to be able to make those tough decisions and stay the course when it comes to the values, the relationships, and who you are as an organization, then you're going to get the results you want. Nothing, you know, nothing really good in life comes super easy. Most of the best stuff, you're going to have to work for, and this is no different.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:40) That's a hundred percent true, right? And I'm feeling you here real personal because I had a specific situation. I'll be ambiguous intentionally. I had a specific situation where an investor was coming to me, and they were having a problem with one of the companies that they were investing with, right? And it's like, we keep giving them money, and they say they're going to do this, and then that doesn't happen. And so what should we do, Joel? And they're asking me because the product was technology, even though it's a human thing that we're talking about. Because the product was technology and I was involved, that's just how the relationships were in that group.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:13) So I said, get rid of them. But they didn't want to get rid of them because of the way relationships, who knew who and what. It was a thing where the individual was ineffective and could not perform, but was causing the company harm. And they just kept asking me, what do you do?

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:28) I said, the answer is get rid of them. They give them another hundred K. It goes away. What do you do? Get rid of them. Another hundred K goes away. They didn't spend it. Wait. They're not paying—they're not doing the right things. Get rid of them.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:37) That's my answer every single time. So it's like there's no question of what to do. It's get rid of them. They just don't do it. The hardest thing is to do what needs to be done consistently as well.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:30:50) Well, see, that's the key. It's inconsistency that lets the employees know that anything goes. And so what happens, what we see in an organization—see, we believe that every organization has an organizational culture, but some of them are culture by design and some are culture by default. Culture by default, anything goes. Culture by design means you've taken the time to identify what it is that you value.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:31:16) You model it as a leader. You teach it. You protect it, and you celebrate it. And you do all of this consistently. Because as soon as you deviate from it, then you basically say anything goes. It's only when you live your values consistently that the people in the organization are going to realize you're supposed to live those values.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:31:39) But if you let me get away with something and you don't let her get away with something, that inconsistency leaves your employees up in the air, and they don't know how to act. And the whole idea is to create a place where people don't have to come to you to ask you questions all the time. They know this is how we do it here. They can make decisions. They know you're going to support them, and you move forward.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:32:02) And those organizations make great decisions, they make them faster, and when they move quicker, they get to those intermediate goals and the ultimate goal a lot quicker. And when that happens, then they reload towards the next goal.

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:17) Yeah. If everyone's very clear about what's happening, why it's happening, everyone has a similar mind share, they all share the same values, they're all aware of the target they're trying to hit, it creates this independence and decision making. It just makes the system more efficient. When everyone knows what's going on, it's way easier to do your job. Right?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:32:37) Right. Exactly. So here's what has to happen. You define your culture on the front end through your values very specifically. There's a specific way to do it, and I already mentioned to you the specific things that your values must attach to if you're going to do a great job.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:32:53) You define the culture through the values. You model it as a leader. You teach it to everyone. Everyone in the organization is responsible to live those values. And then if someone's not living the values because you've modeled it, because you've taught it, you have the ability to go in and say, "Hey, you're not doing what we do around here. You know, we said that respect among coworkers is important, and you're not respecting the people that are working for you. I need you to change that." And when someone doesn't change that in a couple of weeks and they're still disrespecting, then you allow them to go someplace where their behavior will be acceptable, but you get them out of your culture.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:33:34) And companies don't do that. And they, instead of hire slow, fire fast, they hire fast and fire slow. And everybody I've ever asked, "Have you ever fired someone?" they go, "Yeah." I said, "And what have people in your organization said to you right after you fired them?" And they stop and they think and they go, "What took you so long?" I said exactly. Nobody wants to work around the person who's moaning and groaning and complaining all the time. So why do you allow them to stay in your organization? "Oh, but they're my number one producer." So what?

(Joel Beasley at 00:34:09) At what cost? How much is that actually costing you, though? Right? If all your other people are put down or unmotivated, not productive, or you can't scale the team because the best talent, second and third best people don't want to work with that individual, then you're just handicapping yourself.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:34:25) Right. Now here's the deal. When you let that person with that crappy attitude stay in your organization, what you're saying is we do not value respect among our peers, and it doesn't matter how you treat people. And you can't tell me that you value and respect if you allow someone to stay in your organization that doesn't respect the people they work around. You can't. So you've got to take respect off your values because if you leave it on there, you're a liar. And nobody wants to do business with a liar. You might as well just say, "Hey, you don't have to respect people as long as you produce." You might as well put that on the wall. Right?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:35:01) But no one's going to put that on the wall. Nobody in their right mind would put that on the wall, but yet that's what they're living in the organization. Now, I mentioned my book Nonnegotiable, which is about Happy State Bank. At Happy State Bank, they don't care who you are. You could be a vice president. You could be a teller. You could be a branch manager. If you don't respect the people around you and you're not treating them right, you're gone. They're not going to let you stay there. And so what happens is you have 700 people in an organization that truly enjoy working together, and so there's less stress. They know they don't have to look over their shoulder. No one's out to get them. They're moving forward. They move forward very quickly. They achieve amazing results.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:35:43) People love to come to work because guess what? Everyone they work with has a positive attitude. Why? Because having a positive attitude is one of their values. And if you show up without a positive attitude two or three times, they're going to allow you to go someplace where that kind of behavior is acceptable.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:36:02) And if you're a leader of an organization, you have the right and the responsibility to define your culture through those values and then, by golly, have the integrity to live those values 100% all the time.

(Joel Beasley at 00:36:16) Oh. If there's some clap post production there. Yes. Sam, that's awesome. I'm going to—is your stuff on Audible? Do you have any of your books on Audible?

(Sam Silverstein at 00:36:26) Actually, we haven't up until this point, but my publisher—I've got three books coming out this year. And when they come out, all of those books will be on Audible. And then I think he's going to go back to the other ones.

(Joel Beasley at 00:36:39) That would be great. I would love—so I'm a big Audible fan, and it's spread like wildfire. Right? I know so many people who consume Audible content because it's so easy. Right? And the best Audible books, the ones that I enjoyed the most, remember the most, the author does the narration. So you have an amazing voice, the inflection, the tone, the energy. If you can on some of your older books or if it—ask them. Just I'm telling you, the reviews, go look at some books. Right? Go look at some of the books where the author did the narration versus they hired some narrator, and the reviews, 10 times. Right? 10 times more positive. Everybody loves consuming. But here's the thing: the last three authors I've talked to, big authors, right, in the technology space or marketing space or whatever, they said that their publishers are telling them no. That they want to hire voice actors.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:37:40) They want to use—yeah. I'm running into the same thing.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:45) So here's what I found. When there's a disconnect between what I experience and the market, I rely on my experience because it's very real to me and it works. Right? And when I go out to the market and I talk to 100 people, everybody says they like it when the author has a good voice, they want the author's voice. They prefer the author's voice. And then I have authors on my show, and they tell me that their publishing company is saying no, that to get a hired voice author, it does better, performs better. It doesn't. It just—it can't. It can't be doing that. There's got to be some skew somewhere. There's got to be some incentive or some misrepresentation of some information by maybe the companies that license the voice actors. I don't know. But there's some disconnect because I have never come across a person that's like, "Oh, I love it when it's the not awesome author voice that I have to listen to for two hours." Right? Nobody likes that. People pay to hear you speak. Sam, people pay you. Your whole career is based on you talking.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:38:52) Well, exactly. But that is, you have to be honest, that is a unique aspect from the standpoint of I am a professional speaker. I'm a past president of the National Speakers Association. I would like to think that I have a set of presentation and speaking skills, but most authors are not speakers. Just because you're an author doesn't mean you're a speaker. And so there's a good chance that an author isn't a speaker and isn't able to do that. And so, I mean, I can see both sides of it, I guess.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:26) I vote for you though.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:39:30) Well, I appreciate that. I love it. I'm just becoming one of your biggest fans because I feel like you're one of mine. So I'm all in on that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:37) Yes. And I love you, so I'm going to get the book on Audible either way because your content is so valuable.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:39:43) Well, I appreciate that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:45) Awesome. So thank you so much. You've brought so much value, Sam. You've just killed it. We are going to produce this, and yeah, thank you so much for your time today, Sam.

(Sam Silverstein at 00:39:55) Absolutely.

(Joel Beasley at 00:40:01) Thank you so much for listening to the Modern CTO Podcast. Share this. Get the word out. Thank you guys so much. I couldn't do it without you. I appreciate it. You guys are the absolute best.