Hexagon CTO - Rob Daw

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:00) Thank you all so much for listening and sharing this podcast. I'm incredibly grateful to get to do what I love with the people who I'm proud to work with. So I wanted to give a special shout out to Jake. Thank you for being an amazing audio engineer, Chloe in PR who books our amazing guests, and Alex who edits all of these as video interviews on YouTube. So if you want to see what these great leaders look like and watch us talking, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube Modern CTO.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:26) And of course, shout out to Fabiana who does all of our product management and coaching for Leaderbits. This podcast has changed my entire life for the better, and I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for listening. Now get excited, because today we are talking to Rob Daw, the CTO at Hexagon Mining, and we discussed the evolution of technology in mining, strategies for running an effective global team, and how Hexagon is using AI to make the industry safer for everyone. All of this right here, right now on the Modern CTO podcast. Here we go.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:02) This is the Modern CTO podcast. There he is. How are you doing, buddy?

(Rob Daw at 00:01:15) Morning, evening. How you doing, mate?

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:18) It's like 6 a.m. where you are.

(Rob Daw at 00:01:21) Pretty much.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:23) So have you adopted—are you on a different sleep schedule where you get up ridiculously early because you work with a mining company, or no?

(Rob Daw at 00:01:32) Yeah, pretty much. Usually 5, 5:30 a.m. is about the stock standard. Plus I've got two younger children as well, so that completely throws a spanner in the works.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:42) How old?

(Rob Daw at 00:01:43) Well, I've got—we just had twins, so they've been out nearly four months, and then also got a five-year-old and a seven-year-old. So it's a busy household.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:52) So you got four?

(Rob Daw at 00:01:54) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:55) Okay. See, that's—I only have two. I've got a 2.5-year-old and a one-year-old.

(Rob Daw at 00:02:03) Nice.

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:03) So that's like—I can't imagine twins as like the third child is twins.

(Rob Daw at 00:02:10) Yeah, you know that old adage, you go for the third and you get the twins.

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:14) No one says that.

(Rob Daw at 00:02:20) It's one of those ones though, right? When you go to buy a car and you all of a sudden start to see that car driving around on the streets everywhere, it's the same sort of thing. Once this has happened, everyone's like, "Oh yeah, I had a friend that that happened to," and, "Well, uncle did that," and I'm like, "Okay, it's quite common."

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:37) Oh man. Well, so I imagine that mining is a pretty big industry because I've had—I think I've had three people on the show that are from Australia, and you're the third. But two of the three are in mining. Is that a huge industry there?

(Rob Daw at 00:02:54) It is, yeah. I mean, it's probably our primary industry and export out of the country. So especially on the west coast, it's very heavily focused on mining. East coast, you have a little bit more tourism and a few other bits and pieces, but yeah, it is massive.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:10) And then so Lachlan was the guy who—last guy I talked to about a year, year and a half ago—that was doing some mining and some technology and mining. Really cool guy. And I ended up naming my son after him.

(Rob Daw at 00:03:27) Nice.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:28) So that spot's already been taken.

(Rob Daw at 00:03:30) Let me go.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:32) Is that a common name over there, Lachlan?

(Rob Daw at 00:03:35) No, not really.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:36) No? Okay, cool. Yeah, I've been telling everybody it is. So lucky it was like Lachlan, cool name. I'm like, "Oh, it's like John in Australia. It's very common."

(Rob Daw at 00:03:44) Yeah, exactly.

(Joel Beasley at 00:03:49) So was mining a family business? How did you get into that?

(Rob Daw at 00:03:53) No, so I came from an agriculture business. So I'm one of four as well. So I'm used to the bigger families and I think growing up, I was the youngest, so I already had three brothers who were in agriculture and my eldest brother was on the farm already. So there was not enough room for another one. So I looked at other industries where I could work in the primary sector and decided to jump over into the mining business. So it was something that was really interesting and intrigued me, the mining game. And I also wanted to do a job that wasn't office-based, but I could still get out and about and get some sunshine. So I kind of looked at what industries, what jobs in those industries were available and ultimately ended up picking surveying. And that got me started into the industry.

(Joel Beasley at 00:04:50) So when you were in agriculture, were you doing technology over there or just other things?

(Rob Daw at 00:04:56) I think you do by default. I was never in technology in agriculture, but you're always looking for ways you can improve the business. So whether that's from a software point of view with the agribusiness and figuring out your numbers and finances all the way through to how can you automate your equipment to be able to do the job better and faster and quicker. So I think I grew up with that mentality of, you know, how can we make this easier? How can we make it faster? Just to try and make it a bit more efficient, I guess.

(Joel Beasley at 00:05:28) So is autonomous technology pretty popular right now in the mining world?

(Rob Daw at 00:05:34) Hugely. I think everyone, if they haven't implemented it, they're talking about implementing it and when and how. I think it's still a long journey to go, especially for a lot of our brownfields—so existing operations—to get to that step. But it's definitely a very hot topic and the industry is really starting to adopt, or think about, how do we—what sort of procedures and standards do we need to put in place to really make this work, I guess.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:05) So when I think about mining, I've got two visuals in my head. The first visual is like a mine shaft with some guys in there with a pickaxe, right? And the second visual I have is giant vehicles and blowing up sides of mountains strategically. Are both of those things still happening today?

(Rob Daw at 00:06:30) Not so much on the pick and shovel space.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:32) Okay.

(Rob Daw at 00:06:33) I think we've mechanized a lot of those processes. So we still have a lot of people on the air legs. So if you have a picture of one of the little pneumatic drills that goes in and actually lines out the very narrow vein type of materials, so that's still very hands on and quite challenging. And then, you know, the tools to get the material out, but we've definitely mechanized that process a significant amount from the underground point of view. And then if you look at open pit, yeah, it's just how do we—it's bigger, faster. How do we get that material from A to B as quick as possible and as efficiently as possible?

(Joel Beasley at 00:07:17) So you used a cool word that I hadn't applied to this before. So you call it mechanized. Like, if I take a manual job and add mechanics to it, that's what you refer to as mechanization, and then automation would be the next step.

(Rob Daw at 00:07:31) Yeah, exactly. 100%. I think—how do you help? I mean, end game is how do we reduce the amount of people in dangerous zones or in dangerous jobs? How do we help them? So first step is how can we use mechanization to actually help them do their job better? And then I think as we move further into that autonomous world, it's how do we then reduce the amount of exposure we have in the industry to these types of roles. So continually working down that path, I think.

(Joel Beasley at 00:08:03) So where do you guys focus? Do you build the giant machines that you're mechanizing? Do you build sensors for safety? Where do you focus in the stack of things? Help me understand, because I don't know much about mining.

(Rob Daw at 00:08:17) Yeah, from a Hexagon point of view, we're very heavily focused on the sensor data, so acquisition of that information and then the use of that data to be able to improve the process and ultimately automate it as well. So we don't deal in creating equipment, but what we do is—our catchphrase is that we are OEM-independent. So we're able to work with a lot of the different OEMs and be able to leverage our technology from, I guess, mine planning, which is the very first processes in a mine site, through to operational technology. So how do we use fleet management to understand where our assets are, what they're doing, and how we optimize them? We also look at safety. So we've got collision avoidance, making sure that we can keep people safe, not just vehicle to vehicle, but vehicle to person or V2X type technology. And then we're moving more and more into the autonomous space and also into enterprise technologies. So using all of that data that we gather in those sensors, in those point solutions, to be able to create a bit more of a holistic view for our operations that they can start to get a better picture of what's happening in their organization. And then luckily enough through the Hexagon family, we have access to a significant amount of technology that we bring and adopt into the mining industry. So we also have our survey equipment and geotech, geomonitoring side of things. So making sure that as we design pits, we effectively try and design open pits to collapse on themselves at a certain point, right? Because that's the most economical and efficient way to get the material out. But during that process, we want to make sure people are safe. So we want to be able to monitor and track that information and be able to use that in real time to be able to protect people and assets.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:12) No, I love what you guys are doing, and it sounds like you get to play with a lot of different types of technology from the planning type of software all the way to maybe having libraries and kits that OEMs can install so you can get data and process data. And then I just think it's pretty cool, the wide array of different things you can do. Now did you ever catch a Joe Rogan and Elon Musk podcast? Did you hear that?

(Rob Daw at 00:10:38) No, I didn't.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:39) So Elon is talking about them pulling the permit to build a pit, to dig a pit, because Joe was like, "Oh, how do you build an underground tunnel?" He's like, "Well, you start with just a hole, so you get a permit for a pit," right? And so then I was thinking about that before this podcast. I was excited to talk with you. Have you seen that project, The Boring Company?

(Rob Daw at 00:11:04) Not from the—I've kept up with it in terms of The Boring Company, but I haven't seen it live, no.

(Joel Beasley at 00:11:10) Do you think that that concept, The Boring Company concept of drilling these tunnels and these holes and then allowing traffic to flow through them, do you like that? What's your gut reaction just as a, I guess, spectator of the industry?

(Rob Daw at 00:11:27) Absolutely. I mean, I think we've been doing it in mining for a number of years, not for the traffic flow, obviously, but for how we extract some of the minerals from underground. It's pretty commonplace technology for us. So it's exciting to see. And it's always nice to see the sort of technology and the processes that we have in mining be adopted into more civil projects as well, I guess. And the surface is pretty crowded when we look at cities and going into sort of smart cities. So we've either got to go up into the air or we've got to go underground to get some tunnels going. So I think we're—I don't know how far away we are from flying around the place, but I think the underground side of things is definitely a big opportunity for us.

(Joel Beasley at 00:12:13) So this is a concept that exists in your world. Like, we have minerals over here. So we're going to dig down, dig across, and then create this little underground road to go get the minerals in and out of.

(Rob Daw at 00:12:27) Absolutely. So I mean, it depends on the ore body itself and everything else, but underground mining is probably—it's very capital intensive, but it's the most efficient way to extract material, again depending on the ore body, out of the ground. So I guess we've been doing underground mining for centuries in terms of that. That goes back to your sort of pick and shovel and getting the material out, right? And the next step was to mechanize it and take it into these big bores and doing either raised bores into the surface and stuff like that. So yeah, it's definitely a cool space. I love underground working and the technologies that have been applied to it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:08) So that word ore, okay, I hear a lot in my research. I saw it come up a lot. Is it a variable, a generic word for the material that you guys use?

(Rob Daw at 00:13:19) Correct. So you effectively have ore and waste. So ore is the stuff that you're trying to mine, whether you have all the different commodities, right? You know, for example, iron ore, gold, copper, all the different commodities, whether that be precious or bulk commodities. That's what we sort of loosely term as ore, and then you have your waste and you're trying to distinguish between the two.

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:44) Okay. Ore and waste. Alright. See, this is 101. Jake's like, "Shut up."

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:48) He's like, "We get it." But I don't think a lot of people know about mining, though. It's not like we're doing programming 101 stuff.

(Rob Daw at 00:13:57) This is mining 101, right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:13:59) Mining 101. That's the theme of this podcast.

(Rob Daw at 00:14:01) That's it, mate. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:14:03) Last year, I got to talk with Miguel who is—at the time, he was the CTO of New York City. Now he's over at Mastercard. But the topic of that show was smart cities, how New York City and different cities are becoming smart cities. Do they have smart mines? Is that a thing?

(Rob Daw at 00:14:22) Yeah, definitely. That's the nirvana and that's the path that we're all heading in for mines in terms of creating more technology to make our mines smarter and more efficient. And that's probably one of our catchphrases from a Hexagon point of view is really how do we make them smarter? How do we take autonomous into autonomy so that we can really start to look at the processes and the technologies and ultimately extract that ore safer, faster, and more efficiently? But it's not just about the extraction of the ore. There's so many more processes that we have in mining downstream. So if you look at the processing plant, if you look at rail, if you look at taking it all the way down to the port, it's how do we take all of that information and actually optimize it and get smarter and better with it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:15:15) So have you ever had these data points and these systems running when a mine accident has happened? So you can go back and look at the data, as precursors to a mine accident?

(Rob Daw at 00:15:30) Yeah. Unfortunately, we've had those sort of circumstances that have happened where an incident has happened. And it's important for us as operations to be able to go back and understand what actually happened. And it's not about a finger-pointing exercise. It's really about how do we go back and how do we improve the operation? How do we mitigate the risks? How do we help our operators or the people in that environment be safer and be able to do the job in a safe way and be able to go home every night? So through some of the technologies we have, let's say an example would be our collision avoidance system, we're able to actually backtrack through the time series and understand what was the operator doing, what were the environmental conditions, so kind of situational awareness, and be able to tile that together to paint a picture for the investigation as to what possibly happened and what was happening at the time.

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:34) Yeah. Because if a bad thing happens, it's a positive if you were able to capture data and be able to avoid those in the future. Right?

(Rob Daw at 00:16:44) 100%. I mean, it's a bad thing that happens if someone's gotten hurt or the equipment's gotten damaged or something like that. But it's even worse if you don't learn from it. You know, so it's that old sort of analogy of it's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

(Rob Daw at 00:17:01) So it's really making sure that we do that right investigation with the right information possible.

(Joel Beasley at 00:17:07) So if I were to—and like you said that you like to be in a job where you can go outside and interact. So if I were to visit and you took me to a mine site, right, hypothetically, is there going to be autonomous little WALL-E type robot creatures doing activities? Like, are there autonomous things happening out there?

(Rob Daw at 00:17:30) No. Not to that level. Not yet, unfortunately. It'd be nice. It'd be interesting.

(Rob Daw at 00:17:35) I think where we've really started is with the fleets that we have out in the field. So if you look at those massive trucks that you might see, we're automating those, so they're able to drive themselves, which is very impressive and quite daunting at the same time when you see these massive vehicles driving past you and no one's behind the steering wheel. It kind of takes your breath away the first few times. And then also drill rigs and things like that. But we've still got so many opportunities in the mining environment for us to be able to automate that. I think it's just going to be a continuous story for us.

(Rob Daw at 00:18:11) And to be able to do it where it makes sense, I think, is also going to be one of the key areas.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:17) So when you were talking about the trucks and they'll be really big and going by you, that's an interesting thing for me because a lot of the conversations that I've had just, you know, for me subjectively, have been around, I guess, cars on the street. Right? Like, autonomous vehicles. That's just a popular consumer topic.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:36) But you guys have it—it's different because you're out there, and you're not technically on roads. It's like a construction site, for lack of a better term. So I would imagine that that would have the leniency or the room to actually accelerate and start using that technology sooner. So are those autonomous trucks things that are actually happening on a normal basis?

(Rob Daw at 00:18:59) Yeah. Absolutely. We're lucky enough that because we do, as you said, own the land or we can own the infrastructure. So we can actually run these sorts of vehicles off in our own little space, in a protected area, protected zone where we can minimize the amount of interactions with other vehicles or other people. So it really enables us to try and push this technology and the bounds that we do with it.

(Rob Daw at 00:19:25) So, yeah, we're lucky in that sense, for sure.

(Joel Beasley at 00:19:29) So what's the competition like? Is it a highly competitive market? Is it something where you guys—yeah, like what's the competition like?

(Rob Daw at 00:19:38) I think for autonomous it's really been owned by the OEMs. I guess they know the vehicles themselves are able to run faster. I think this has been a 20- to 25-year journey for a lot of companies on moving into autonomous. It's not something that's just happened overnight. From an OEM sort of agnostic platform, there's a lot less in that space.

(Rob Daw at 00:20:06) So, you know, companies coming in and actually sort of disrupting that OEM space. We're really pushing heavily on how do we work and partner with those OEMs to create an environment that is sort of interchangeable, that gives the best of breed and opportunities for our clients to be able to grab what they need when they need for autonomy, which is kind of a bit of a different concept instead of looking at the full stack of tech. That's like, well, how do we get into that space and help those clients as well?

(Joel Beasley at 00:20:37) And so what does, as a CTO, what does your team look like?

(Rob Daw at 00:20:43) Very diverse. So we've got in my particular portfolio, we've got about seven or eight development houses around the world from Vancouver to Tucson to Belo Horizonte, Brisbane, Perth, and up into Switzerland in Zug. So I've got a very unique team. We've got a lot of different cultures, which is fantastic. I love it because the different cultures come with different ideas and different concepts of how to do things.

(Rob Daw at 00:21:10) So it's quite an interesting melting pot when we bring everyone together to be able to understand their life experiences, their technologies, and where they want to be able to take them. It really gives us a good leg up into where we should be heading into the future with it. So, yeah, very, very diverse on the cultural front. And yeah, the catalyst of that is we've acquired quite a lot of different companies and we really encourage those companies when they come in under the Hexagon fold to really grow and build those up. So consequently, we have different development centers around the world, which can be challenging at some times as well.

(Rob Daw at 00:21:50) And hence the reason why I don't want them being up so early and getting on phone calls. But it does also bring that really unique dynamic of different experiences and especially in the mining industry, which is such a global business as well.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:05) So when you do these mergers and acquisitions, is that like a separate team or do you get involved as a CTO?

(Rob Daw at 00:22:12) Yeah. No. 100% get involved. We have to do the due diligence on that. We look at the technology and how that fits into our technology stack.

(Rob Daw at 00:22:21) You know, obviously you're always looking for companies that can complement our story and our business line of what we're trying to achieve in the industry. So it's really important for us to look at that technology stack and understand what the challenges and what the benefits are going to be. But not just that, but also starting to create that rapport with those teams. We really want them to come in and hit the ground running. And one of the best ways to do that is to establish that relationship early with them and be able to build that rapport up and get confident in each other.

(Rob Daw at 00:22:57) I think it's no different to when you hire someone. You've got to spend time with people and understand what their strengths and weaknesses are. And I think that's exactly the same when you look at acquisitions, and we're just trying to hit the ground and run as fast as possible with it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:13) So when you have these cultures in different countries, which is great, but how do—you said, I think you had seven different development houses. How, and while they'll all have their own culture, right? But how do you bring it together under the Hexagon umbrella as the leader of the technologists?

(Rob Daw at 00:23:32) Yeah. There's a few different techniques that you can use, I guess. One of them is annually we have a catch-up with the bulk of the team. We all get together for a full week and we hash out what is our strategic initiatives, what's our roadmaps, where we want to go as a company or on a technology standpoint. And also some of the backend processes as well, you know, down to how do we want to use technology like a Jira to be able to do our job better and things like that.

(Rob Daw at 00:24:04) So it's really open forum to be able to come with your ideas and then be able to workshop through some of those things. The other aspect is we have an annual—we call it a miner day—where we can have teams around the world and they have the opportunity to take some time out of their day-to-day job and go and do some innovative projects that they either want to work on or they think could really change the game in the industry as well. So there's a couple of different techniques that we use. And then you've got the other daily catch-ups and bits and pieces that we work through. And it's about putting, I guess, the right structures through those teams so that they are enabled. I think that's the biggest thing for us is we're very light in terms of the management structure.

(Rob Daw at 00:24:54) We really want to have teams and our people to be enabled to be able to make those decisions. And as we always call it, just run faster.

(Joel Beasley at 00:25:02) So there's no magic culture wand you can just wave and everybody gets along?

(Rob Daw at 00:25:07) I wish. I think we're quite lucky because we've all got that mining background and drive. So it's actually quite easy. Like, either I'm very lucky and I've got a fantastic team, which I definitely do, or, yeah, we've just lucked it in somehow. But yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:25:27) A little bit of both. Right? You get the experience to put the right teams together and make the right acquisitions, and then you create that sort of self-fulfilling system that constantly attracts those types of people. Productive. And yeah. I like it.

(Rob Daw at 00:25:44) Yeah. I think really having the right vision and strategy defined as a business, not just from a technology point of view, but as a business really helps drive that message. So having that, you know, number one smart technology provider and life of mine for us—it's a life of mine vision—really helps the whole business, as much as the technology group, to have focus on what we're really trying to achieve.

(Joel Beasley at 00:26:12) One of the things that I'm always curious about is how did you actually meet and get involved with Hexagon? Like, did you meet the CEO? Like, how did you get pulled into that company?

(Rob Daw at 00:26:25) I was one of those acquisitions. Right? So I was actually a co-founder of my own business about seven or eight years—nearly 10 years ago now. And about three years ago, Hexagon acquired my company. And I think this is probably a testament to the business itself because you can go through that whole sort of acquisition phase and then be done with it and go, yep. Cool.

(Rob Daw at 00:26:49) I'm going to exit the business and sort of go exit stage left. But what we're being able to do in Hexagon is exciting and wants to be—we all want to be involved in it. So I kind of transitioned from that business owner into the CTO role about 12 to 18 months ago.

(Joel Beasley at 00:27:10) See, I love it when I get to talk to the founders. Right? Because there's nothing wrong with taking the corporate CTO path. There's nothing wrong with it at all.

(Joel Beasley at 00:27:22) It's just different. It's just a different experience when you have the weight of the technology division, but also the entire organization, and you've done that before. So I got a lot of respect.

(Rob Daw at 00:27:38) Cheers. No, I think it's just at scale as well. Right? So I think, as I said, mining industry is quite—it's a global business and sometimes in different areas, you can have a really strong focus on your technology. And then, but what Hexagon can then also help you and provide you is that scale to take it into a global market.

(Rob Daw at 00:27:58) And that's not easy to do. I think anyone who's tried it will put their hand up and say it's a very challenging process, and it's unique that there's a company like Hexagon that's so enabled to be able to help those businesses do that. Then not just that, but then be able to progress and push the technology further. It's fantastic.

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:19) Yeah. I mean, it's hard enough to order something from another country, let alone expand your business into it. Right?

(Rob Daw at 00:28:25) Exactly.

(Joel Beasley at 00:28:26) So I want to dive a little bit deeper into the acquisition. So, well, the first question is, when they did the acquisition of your company, did you come over directly as a CTO, or did you have another role and then become CTO later?

(Rob Daw at 00:28:41) I had another role. So typically, you know, any acquisition, there's always an element of, I guess, an earn-out where you've got particular goals or whatever it might be. So we effectively ran the business as usual, but just with this now massive force behind you. So I continued to sort of be the managing director of the business and really focused in on the BD aspect and helping the rest of the globe understand what the technology was, how to sell it, how to implement it. And those multiple hats that you wear in your own business typically.

(Rob Daw at 00:29:17) So I continued to do that for a couple of years. And then once that earn-out was done, we quickly transitioned over into the CTO role and kind of took on a more strategic business role within Hexagon.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:31) Nice. So when I just want to unpack—BD for business development. Right? That's what you're referring to?

(Rob Daw at 00:29:37) Yeah. Business development, basically.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:40) So you came in or you did the acquisition and during the earn-out you went around and essentially sold and explained the technology to the people selling it within Hexagon, like other parts of Hexagon?

(Rob Daw at 00:29:55) Yeah. But I mean, within the Hexagon mining framework, we've got different global reaches there. So we have, you know, US, Canada, we have LATAM, we have APAC, we have Europe, Middle East, and Asia there. So kind of we've got different hubs. So I went in and I helped train up and upscale those groups, but also talking directly with clients still and making sure that we were pushing and promoting the technology.

(Rob Daw at 00:30:18) We're a much smaller business, so coming from that sense, you kind of wear multiple hats in those sorts of businesses, right? Everything from marketing into sales, into services, into product management world as well. So, yeah, we continued to push that. And then the desire for me was always around the technology and ultimately how we can change or continue to change the game in the mining industry. So that was why I was quite excited to then go in and take that CTO role afterwards.

(Joel Beasley at 00:30:49) Yeah. I like that explanation because a lot of people who haven't been through an M&A process—well, at first, it highlights a couple benefits, but it also shows that it's still a people business. Because just because they bought you does not mean that all the different limbs of the organization understand what you do. You still have to go around and sell and explain and build relationships. You just get to do it within the same brand.

(Rob Daw at 00:31:15) 100%. I think even if you take a new product to commercialization within your own business, you're still doing it. Right? You're your own internal salesperson.

(Rob Daw at 00:31:26) So how do you take that technology? How do you hand that over to sales groups and get them to understand the benefits of that technology to be able to sell to clients? How do you transition that over to services and support so that your clients are getting the best value once they do implement the technology? I think that's all part of the product side and the technology and innovation side—is that handshake to the rest of the business and being able to commercialize it effectively.

(Joel Beasley at 00:31:56) So I'm going to give you a hypothetical here. So let's say that we've got some technology founders listening and they're, you know, building their first sales team out. Right? What insight or advice would you give them as they put together that first sales team?

(Rob Daw at 00:32:15) So around the actual sales team itself or around sort of commercializing it in general?

(Joel Beasley at 00:32:20) I would say you've got a founder, tech founder who's making sales. Right? They're making some sales. They're doing it themselves. They're sending emails. They're getting meetings. They're making sales, and they're going to build out their first sales team.

(Rob Daw at 00:32:36) Yep. Make sure you trust the people that you're bringing in. They are representing your brand. They're representing, and depending on the size of your business, they're representing yourself as well.

(Rob Daw at 00:32:49) So take the time, invest into them, get to know them. Don't just throw them under the bus. Don't throw them into a meeting in the first week and expect them to be able to deliver. That really is taking them on a journey to be able to understand—in the mining industry, especially—you don't just go in to sell a product. You're going in to sell a solution.

(Rob Daw at 00:33:13) So you're going in to be able to partner with those vendors, with those clients and customers. So you really do need to be able to build that rapport with those people very quickly. You know, depending on what type of business you're in, what sort of technology you're in, is domain experience important for you? I think it's just a number of questions dependent on the type of technology and type of business that you're in.

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:41) So have you had any people you'd consider mentors along your career?

(Rob Daw at 00:33:47) Yeah, a number. I think, where to start on that one. I mean, obviously early on growing up was definitely my dad and him sort of pushing me on the different technologies, the different ways and work ethic along the way, and always sort of challenged the norm on that front. Into when I first started in the mining industry, I had a mine manager there who was very much about similar sort of ilk. And he gave me probably my first piece of solid advice, which was if you want to climb the food chain, you're always going to look at how you can make yourself redundant, which at the time—I was about 19, 20—I was kind of looking at it and going, what do you mean? I don't want to make myself redundant. That just doesn't make sense.

(Rob Daw at 00:34:29) But when you stopped and actually started to think about it, it was more along the lines of, well, you can't be replaced in a business unless you actually build people up underneath you who can take your role.

(Rob Daw at 00:34:46) So how do you, if you want to go into a more senior role, you've got to be able to have a good team that comes with you on that front. So it was quite an interesting piece of advice as a 19, 20-year-old. And then through, I think especially once we went out and founded our business, had a lot of different coaches and mentors through there because you just don't know what you don't know. And I think you can come up with a great idea. You can come up with the code and be able to develop it.

(Rob Daw at 00:35:15) But, you know, some things around finances, around marketing, around go-to-market strategies, you know, the experience is key in that area is what I found. And then we were lucky enough that we had some very open people who were very willing to give us their time and their experience, which was fantastic and really helped us out a lot.

(Joel Beasley at 00:35:37) Do you have any thoughts on being a successful, productive entrepreneur executive while also being a parent?

(Rob Daw at 00:35:48) Get sleep when you can. I think any startup that you go into, it's not easy. And to be able to get your technology through the commercialization and further on, you are working long hours. And we were lucky enough that we had a really strong support network behind us that really helped us, you know, with school pickups and things like that. You've just got to be able to rely on that.

(Rob Daw at 00:36:18) I actually co-founded that business with my wife now. So, yeah, I mean, the two of us were in there and it was a pretty busy time. So, yeah, we were lucky enough that we had a really strong network that we could lean on and be able to help us out.

(Joel Beasley at 00:36:35) Now, did you co-found the business before having kids?

(Rob Daw at 00:36:39) Yes. So I think within the ten years we founded a business, we got married, we had two kids and then exited the business, and then we had two more kids. So all within the last sort of ten years. So it's been a productive decade.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:02) Right? Yeah. When I started the podcast and the business, it was right when my wife was pregnant. And then so, a couple months after I started, we had our first kid, and we had a second kid. And we're not going to do the third, especially after your twin mention.

(Rob Daw at 00:37:18) Yeah. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:22) I'll be talking to those damn Australians, keeps getting more kids. Oh, I love it. So when you guys went into that, because my wife and I, when we started this, I said, look, you know, Elon Musk, someone I like to listen to a lot, he said it's like starting a company—he's like, staring into the abyss and eating glass. And I said, well, that sounds fairly accurate as far as pain goes.

(Joel Beasley at 00:37:52) And so I told her, I said, look, I could either just continue doing what I was doing, building apps with a small team, which was a business, but it was limited. I wouldn't have salespeople. I wasn't growing into something that would be huge. Or I can take this risk and execute on this advice, and I can start something new that has the potential to be much larger. And so we just kind of had to both agree, and then back to me learning sales, then you have to resell them all the time on the decision.

(Rob Daw at 00:38:21) Right? Exactly. Exactly. Yep.

(Joel Beasley at 00:38:24) So you guys talked about it and everything before you went into it?

(Rob Daw at 00:38:27) Yeah. Definitely. We went and saw a lot of advice beforehand as well. So, you know, company or former founders of different businesses, some successful, some not successful, got their advice. You know, and it was pretty much, you know, if you actually stopped and listened to that advice, you probably would never have done it. But I think that was probably what differentiated us and what drove us because it was like, you know, hang on.

(Rob Daw at 00:38:54) We've got a—we could see a gap. We could see the technology was needed. We really wanted to drive that. So that probably gave us a little bit more resolve in the end than it did put us off that actual path. So, but yeah.

(Rob Daw at 00:39:12) Definitely, you've got to go and ask a lot of people a lot of questions and understand whether it's viable or not. And, yeah, it was quite interesting and quite funny all the different advice we got.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:23) So how did you meet? Were you guys out of mining? Were you both in a pit? A magical pit? Like, how did you meet and decide to co-found a company?

(Rob Daw at 00:39:37) Yeah. Well, not far off, actually. We were on a project together up on a mine site. And, yeah, we got sort of paired up into this particular project. We were both worked for the same company, but kind of in different areas. So we didn't ever really cross paths.

(Rob Daw at 00:39:55) And then this project came off and we needed to work together and, yeah, away we went.

(Joel Beasley at 00:40:02) And then you were on a date, you were sitting next to her, and then there just happened to be a diamond in the mine because you guys were mining diamonds, and that's how you proposed?

(Rob Daw at 00:40:13) I wish. No. There's nothing more romantic than having a dinner in a mining camp, you know, with a thousand other people walking around in their trays. You've got to experience it to understand them. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:40:31) Sitting there eating a can of tuna with work boots on. Yeah.

(Rob Daw at 00:40:37) Fun.

(Joel Beasley at 00:40:40) So what can we do? We have this audience, you know, a lot of CTOs, lead developers, engineers, founders, managers, technology. How can we use this audience to help you guys? Are you guys hiring, attracting talent? What could we do for you?

(Rob Daw at 00:40:55) Yeah. I think we're always continuing to grow and look at how we can expand our portfolio. So there's a couple of different areas, I guess. Obviously, we're always looking at mining technology companies, understanding where they fit in the business and what they're doing in the industry. It's really interesting to see all the different gaps and how people are applying different technologies. So I think the door's always open to be able to actually have that conversation and see if there's synergies, if there's opportunity for us to be able to work together in that industry.

(Rob Daw at 00:41:30) It's too small not to be able to work together. So there's that aspect of it. The other side of it, we are continuing to grow and build out our teams. So I think if we look at last year itself, we had about a 15% growth in our R&D group in terms of, you know, bums on seats. So we're looking at, you know, sustainable growth in that business.

(Rob Daw at 00:41:55) So everything from developers through to UI/UX, into product managers, project managers. It's definitely a really energetic and enthusiastic environment to be able to work in. And as I said, our real aim and goal is how do we run faster and how do we deliver technology to the industry better and quicker. So, yeah, I mean, that's definitely two key areas there that I'd be really excited to see if we can get some opportunities out of this.

(Joel Beasley at 00:42:24) Yeah. And so we'll put a link in the show notes to the career page on the website, and we'll put, you know, a link to your LinkedIn. I'm sure you're on LinkedIn, right?

(Rob Daw at 00:42:33) Yes, I am.

(Joel Beasley at 00:42:34) Yeah. All right. And we'll drive people there and, you know, they hear you. They hear the culture. And then I actually found out that this was happening probably about a year into the podcast.

(Joel Beasley at 00:42:47) People I would talk with them, and they would say, hey. Oh, yeah. You know, someone had heard the podcast and then heard my story and reached out to me. I relocated them halfway across the United States, and now they've been one of my best project managers or product designers. And then I was like, oh, I had no idea that that had ever happened because the individual had then worked with them for a whole year before I found out.

(Joel Beasley at 00:43:11) And so I started asking around, sending emails out and asking around, has this happened? They're like, oh, yeah. A lot of people said, oh, yeah. Yeah. People contacted me after hearing you on the podcast, and I've ended up hiring them or working with them.

(Joel Beasley at 00:43:21) And I said, whoa. I can't believe that this happens. What a cool thing. Because who we work with is so important. To know that there's a cool person out there and that you have, you know, these connections and that, you know, it's like this community.

(Joel Beasley at 00:43:36) I just, I don't know.

(Rob Daw at 00:43:38) Yeah. No. Awesome. I think it's one of those ones, right? It's not what you know. It's who you know. And it's how you get connected. And there's so many mediums out there now, and I think, yeah, this is a fantastic medium to be able to make those connections.

(Joel Beasley at 00:43:51) So as we start to wrap up here, I'm going to run another hypothetical one on you. So, okay, let's—yep. We are in a pit. You, we're in a pit.

(Rob Daw at 00:44:02) Yep.

(Joel Beasley at 00:44:04) And all of a sudden, out of the ground comes Elon Musk and one of his boring machines. Right?

(Rob Daw at 00:44:11) With the flamethrower?

(Joel Beasley at 00:44:13) With the flamethrower. Yes. It's the flamethrower on the tip of it. It's very theatrical. He gets out and he says, hey, guys.

(Joel Beasley at 00:44:21) Check it out. And inside we go inside the boring machine, and he's got this time machine inside the boring machine. Right? Very, very phone booth-like device. And he said it's specifically made for Rob's DNA.

(Joel Beasley at 00:44:37) No one else can use this machine, and you're going to go back to that 19-year-old version of yourself and give that individual one piece of advice. What would it be?

(Rob Daw at 00:44:48) Oh, good question. I think probably enjoy the ride and don't try and run too far ahead of yourself. I think sometimes you can get caught up in where you're heading and you really do have to sort of stop and take in what you've been able to achieve and where you are and what you're doing at the time so that you can make sure you're doing it really effectively. So I think for me, it's really, yeah, understanding where you are in life and enjoying that moment. And that's not just from a work point of view, but also from a life point of view.

(Rob Daw at 00:45:22) And don't be in too much of a hurry.

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:27) Great advice, man. That was mic drop. I love it. Dude, we did it.

(Rob Daw at 00:45:31) There you go.

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:32) Success, man. We made a podcast. How do you feel?

(Rob Daw at 00:45:36) Perfect. I'm good now. We'll see how it comes out when I listen to it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:41) Oh, it's going to be beautiful. Yeah. We'll blame it on Jake. I'm just kidding. It'll sound great.

(Rob Daw at 00:45:48) It's one of those ones, right? You cringe when you hear your own voice for the first few times.

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:53) Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I'll have Jake and Chloe loop back with you. And then if you're ever doing some big conference or anything in the States, let me know. And if I'm—I tour around to conferences all the time—maybe we'll stop by and say hello.

(Rob Daw at 00:46:06) Yeah. It sounds good. I think from ours, probably the one that might be of interest to you because it's going to be a massive technology show will be MINExpo this year. It's every four years in Las Vegas. It's probably the biggest show that we have in the mining industry.

(Rob Daw at 00:46:22) And everyone from the Caterpillars, the big massive OEMs, all the way through to the small startups, get the opportunity to present what they're doing in that space.

(Joel Beasley at 00:46:33) They only have this conference every four years?

(Rob Daw at 00:46:36) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:46:37) Interesting.

(Rob Daw at 00:46:37) I mean, we have multiple other conferences around the world every year and stuff like that, but this is really a big four-year conference. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:46:45) And it's in 2020? I think I just posted about it.

(Rob Daw at 00:46:49) Oh, it's in September '24. Yep.

(Joel Beasley at 00:46:51) So I have family in Las Vegas. That's actually pretty cool. I'll put that on my calendar with Chloe because that's actually time of year we usually are out in Vegas anyways. So maybe we'll run into you then.

(Rob Daw at 00:47:03) There you go. Awesome. See you there.

(Joel Beasley at 00:47:05) Thank you so much, buddy. You have a wonderful productive day, and we'll talk soon.

(Rob Daw at 00:47:10) Cheers, man. Have a good evening. Thanks for—

(Joel Beasley at 00:47:11) Nice to meet you.

(Rob Daw at 00:47:12) Appreciate it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:47:13) Thanks.

(Rob Daw at 00:47:14) Cheers. Bye.