Deloitte CTO - Bill Briggs

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:00) Hello, my friends. Today we are talking to Bill, the CTO at Deloitte, and we discuss what it means to have human-centered design, cultivating a vision of consistency to avoid change fatigue, and why they don't want to fail fast. All of this right here, right now on the Modern CTO Podcast.

(Bill Briggs at 00:00:18) Here we go.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:19) This is the Modern CTO Podcast. Where'd you come in from?

(Bill Briggs at 00:00:31) Well, home is Kansas City, and that's where the day started. Silicon Prairie, which is good trivia—where Deloitte's global CTO calls home. There's a good story behind that. But I'm in San Francisco now, and I'll end the day in Chicago. Just one of those type of days.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:45) Hey, I just got back from Chicago yesterday.

(Bill Briggs at 00:00:48) Okay, nice. And no faster way to Kansas City than to Chicago than through the Bay, I tell you.

(Joel Beasley at 00:00:56) That doesn't sound right. I'm not a geography buff.

(Bill Briggs at 00:01:00) Yeah, yeah. Not my strength either. It's funny, my calendar is more ruled by the laws of physics of is it possible? Doesn't necessarily mean is it sensible, but it's okay.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:16) I had this dream that I would be able to schedule flight time only during working hours so that I wouldn't disrupt sleep patterns and I could travel more and it would—yeah, that was a dream, man.

(Bill Briggs at 00:01:31) Yeah. If you figure that out, you can offer life coach services. That would be good.

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:38) We're gonna build a teleporter, Bill, you and I. That's what we should do.

(Bill Briggs at 00:01:41) I'm in. I've heard your recent push for SpaceX, and as soon as we get the Singapore to Kansas in 28 minutes by rocket, I'm in. Yeah. Even the idea of—do you follow Black Mirror? Are you a fan of that show?

(Joel Beasley at 00:01:56) Yeah, you know, I followed the first season of it.

(Bill Briggs at 00:02:00) Okay. In the last few, they've come back to a theme of, you know, what are the rights of your digital—a digital twin of your consciousness? It's an interesting, you know, four or five episodes kind of touch on it in different ways. And you think about the old Star Trek, the transporter, you know, and the very real possibility of your true self being destroyed and a replica being created in this, you know, wherever the endpoint is. And I could live with that. It's funny how you get older. Like, you know, that's fine.

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:34) I'm okay with that.

(Bill Briggs at 00:02:35) Full memory and full consciousness gets to go with it. I'm totally okay, especially when you spend three hours a week in the air. Like, that's—life's sort of full of trade-offs, right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:02:49) So where are you going? What are you doing? Tell me about the travels. Like, okay, you're in the air, you're obviously going many places. Who? Why?

(Bill Briggs at 00:02:58) Yeah. So my role is interesting, right? It's one, for Deloitte Consulting as we drive all of our clients—you know, big private companies, public sector organizations—helping them figure out and navigate through all the technology happenings into tomorrow. I spend a lot of my time with executive teams just walking through what's the future of, you know, either the industry or the broader sector issues or, you know, my wheelhouse does—how the collection technologies across the horizon. You know, what's real? When is it gonna be real? How does it affect their worlds? And what should they do? So, you know, any given week is five or six of those types of client workshops and briefings. Either in places we're already helping them or places that they just want our opinion to have a strategy. So that's a piece of it. And then I also own the places that for Deloitte we're investing to help build out our services and capabilities and the platforms we're building and the solution elements that we're investing in to be ahead of, you know, where the world's going so we can continue to be relevant in our clients' biggest problems. And so teams all over the globe kind of focused on different pieces of that, either startup sensing to doing the solution investment as we incubate new capabilities to, you know, where should we be partnering in different ways. And, you know, that's not just with technology companies anymore. That's also with clients, co-development, co-investment. And then I've got two daughters at home. So, like, I'll be back in Kansas City on Wednesday morning for the fifth grade breakfast where she graduates from elementary school. So, you know, those things are the most important on the calendar. Talk about immovable objects. You navigate through those.

(Joel Beasley at 00:04:46) Yeah. I saw your Twitter profile, and it was—oh yeah, yeah, gamer, guitarist, enthusiast, right? And then part-time philosopher. I was like, I'm gonna like this guy a lot.

(Bill Briggs at 00:04:59) Oh yeah. Sometimes people key on the whiskey enthusiast, which I grew up in Kentucky, so I come by that piece of it naturally. Is my life. But yeah, I think the philosophy piece is funny. As a computer engineer, I never expected that piece of my persona to be so important. But it's into that ethics discussion. The biggest organizations in the world are saying just because we can with emerging technology, should we? And what does it mean? And how do we navigate through that? It's been—yeah, that used to be—yeah, exactly, right? Sometimes we make it a very naive treatment of the issue, but that's exactly right. And what does it mean to our people, our culture? What does it mean to our markets? And what's the broader social-political responsibility that we have? You know? And you can get to all that over appetizers. So over the entree, you can get a really meaty discourse going.

(Joel Beasley at 00:06:00) Right. Unlike when I'm at my mother-in-law's house, I don't want to kick up AI conversations. It's like, they don't go anywhere. They're like, "Oh, there's the nerd." And I'm like, this is actually affecting us. I'm like, you guys know, like, Elon just put a rocket in space, it did a backflip, and came back down and landed itself. So now we've got reusable fuel stages, and they're just, like, talking about what's on TV or something. Like, I'm in the wrong place.

(Bill Briggs at 00:06:29) Yeah. My conservation of karma is my wife is an English major, and she's a preschool teacher. So it's a nice counterpoint to a lot of the things I spend my days focused on. When we compare notes, some of it—there's some convergence, which is interesting. Yeah, technology and education and just mind share. And my daughters are 13 and 10, and they both have phones now. And we're both, you know, we're navigating through what's healthy usage and, you know, try not to be the old man on the porch shaking the cane.

(Joel Beasley at 00:07:11) Right. Because—so I've got a little girl and a boy, and I was actually talking about that with my wife. I said, you know, Apple did that update. But do you have an Apple phone?

(Bill Briggs at 00:07:20) I do. Yeah. You get the screen time. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:07:24) And so I was like, oh my god. Like, look at the screen time. Like, this is ridiculous. And so where do you draw the line? Because if you do one extreme where you're like, no, right? Then they're ill-equipped for life, right? They don't get those digital native skills, right? That would be horrible.

(Bill Briggs at 00:07:46) Right. No. And here we are kind of live. You can finally see me in my wonderful backdrop. Yeah. So if it's in Kansas City, you have my—I can switch personas by how I move the camera. You know, there's the nice chessboard and antique watch in the primary when I'm doing a board. Or if it goes like this, there's a Lego Death Star, and that is a bunch of pinball machines and guitars. And, instead, you just get my serene corporate setting here. But—

(Joel Beasley at 00:08:13) That's okay. So you play a little guitar? More acoustic or electric? Or you switch?

(Bill Briggs at 00:08:18) Started acoustic. Yeah. You know, in youth with bands, you kind of have to plug in. And then have some classical too. So it's a mix. Every—you go to early nineties and alternative rock, you can probably have a good sense of what my sensibilities are on it. But, yeah, don't play enough.

(Joel Beasley at 00:08:41) I know. I just—so the first thing I do when I got back from Chicago yesterday afternoon is played with the kids and then went in and played guitar because they love to, like, the little—Aria, she likes to, like, dance and crazy dance while I play. So I was actually playing some, like, nineties stuff yesterday, like some, what was it, like, some Wonderwall, you know?

(Bill Briggs at 00:09:02) Oh, yeah, sure. And then they go 3 and rock it out. And then "Didn't Know It, Bro." Yeah. Do you use the Ultimate Guitar tabs? It's like I got this app on my phone for it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:14) Yeah. I had an internship. I won't name the organization, but software engineering between junior and senior year. I bought a guitar and finished my assignment for the summer in a couple of days. And like, well, just learn what you can. So I decided to interpret that as as much about guitar as the rest of the enterprise. It was a good mix. It was a good summer. I came back, started a band, an awful band.

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:41) That's how you get all the bad ideas out first, and then they get good.

(Bill Briggs at 00:09:45) Exactly. Because what college kids don't want to listen to B-sides of They Might Be Giants? That's obviously the way to up your social cred pretty quickly.

(Joel Beasley at 00:09:55) Yeah. Or join the a cappella group.

(Bill Briggs at 00:09:58) Exactly. I wasn't that forward-looking, but, yeah, it would have been a good—

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:04) So yeah, do you acoustic, I guess? Yeah. Wonderwall acoustic. Yeah.

(Bill Briggs at 00:10:08) Yeah. Well, so—so I started, by the way, this is the podcast, so I hope this doesn't disappoint you. We just recorded the entire time, and then we just edited.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:14) Good. I've listened to your—I love your show, so now I get it.

(Bill Briggs at 00:10:17) Oh, thanks. Yeah. So I started acoustic, and I bought a really cheap guitar to make sure I would, like, get into it. I had, like, 10 years into saxophone, so I knew some basic stuff. But then I fell in love with some of the John Mayer, B.B. King type style because that's fun to, like, freestyle to for a little bit. Yeah. So I go back and forth.

(Joel Beasley at 00:10:41) Elements doing it. That's great. Yeah. My jam was Dave Matthews, kind of up and down the fretboard and just kind of as as he got a little more experiential, my playing got a lot better. And I picked up piano over the years. So I, you know, keyboarding was something just from coding and, you know, and later life PowerPoint. And then, like, well, that's gonna translate okay. So I had the music theory. And and for a while, I was ahead of my daughters. Now they're both better pianists than I am, but that's a blessing, not a—that's a feature, not a defect, right?

(Bill Briggs at 00:11:15) Right? That's—we have a music room. We got drums, piano, acoustic, electric guitar. It's just our bonus room. We're turning it into a music room. And even at 19 months, she goes in there and turns the piano on and just bangs on it. And I'm like, well—awesome. And then she carries the drumsticks around forever. And then whenever I pick up the acoustic guitar, she, like, runs over to the drums and starts—just luckily, they're digital, so she's not really making any noise.

(Joel Briggs at 00:11:39) That's where I was gonna go. Because you said turn on the keyboard. That's a—that's plus plus. You can put the headphones in. So the digital drums, that's, yeah. As opposed to—and my girl's the same way. The music, they gravitate to. The—I think seven pinball machines across the basement. Like, I like to get old ones and fix them up. And their friends come over, and their friends, their minds are blown. They think it's the coolest thing in the world. You live in an arcade in your basement. And my girls look at it and go, yep. We got a box upstairs that keeps the milk cold too. Do you want to see that? Like, that's as interested as they are in the pinball machines because it's just always been there. Kind of breaks my heart. Maybe at some point, though. I've tried incentive schemes, like, you break this high score and you can stay up later—nothing seems to work. So, such is life. Sorry. Dad's toys.

(Bill Beasley at 00:12:32) Smile. Maybe teach them to solder.

(Joel Briggs at 00:12:34) Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what? Every Sunday—so with daughters and with—they get the fine arts all the time. I'm a big proponent of STEAM, you know, put the A in the STEM, and I love the fact that they get that from their mom. And but so during the summers, we do Science Sundays every Sunday. It's just something we—and it's a mix of build a rocket to phototropism or what—whatever, you know. I'm—I actively—but about this time, I've got three weeks until the summer starts. I start cultivating new ideas. And so last year about this time, I said, you know what will be fun? It'll kill a couple weeks. Why don't we make a full-size R2-D2? And that'll be our Science Sunday kind of capstone. And the girls love the idea. I've raised them Star Wars fans, which makes me proud. And Make Magazine had a good, like, hey. Do this in a weekend type of feature story. So I jumped all over it. A year later and he's almost mobile. Like, it's phenomenal, the progress. But it certainly was not a two-weekend type of—but they've helped me solder. They went with me to weld a little bit. You know? We're in my wheelhouse now. It's—there's five Arduinos in it. We're starting to script and code all the light sequences and the remote control pieces. So a lot of the heavy hardware stuff is done. But—

(Bill Beasley at 00:13:51) Come on. Are you posting videos about this on Twitter or anything?

(Joel Briggs at 00:13:55) I've got—so when it's finished, I will. I'll have a grand unveiling. I've been capturing it along the way, and I'm gonna do a big write-up on Medium on it or something just to kind of—my year in the life of an astromech builder on top of the time I'm gonna work. And yeah. Yeah. If you, you know, it's the beautiful thing about any subculture, there's a lot of folks that have paved the way. And for this one, there's a whole community—folks that in Star Wars, they called them—they were all astromechs. That's the—so, anyway, there's a whole collection of people that are just awesome.

(Bill Beasley at 00:14:34) So you get one—one Arduino for the—see, I'm the nerd, so I gotta know this. There's five. I am. Like, one for, like, the wheels, right? Like, what are the other four?

(Joel Briggs at 00:14:44) Well, so you think about it, there's different subsystems in it. So the dome has lights and a bunch of servos that—or the panels could open up and—and the little they call them holo projectors. A little looks like little lights in the front can move. There's three of those. Then the body has the same panels that open. Then you've got the things that control the speed controllers for the actual motor that turns the dome and the brushless motors that actually make him run, you know, be able to drive him around. And then you've got the sound drivers and you've got the remote control drivers and, you know, so it's pretty awesome.

(Bill Beasley at 00:15:19) You got—do you—do you need to have someone, like, come out and do, like, a story on it, like, with where—

(Bill Briggs at 00:15:27) Well, it's what's great is, you know, I look back. I joined Deloitte out of undergrad, and we still had at the time—technology was a huge piece of what we did because, you know, biggest professional services firm in the world. But it was still a kind of a small—it was the interesting little kind of venture amidst the much bigger organization. You know, now technology is hard business strategy. You can't separate it.

(Bill Briggs at 00:15:55) I looked twenty years ago, and I was horrified that people would find out that I had arcade machines or pinball machines in my basement. You know, now I'm talking about building R2-D2 with, you know, boards of Fortune 10 companies because they all think it's fascinating. So the idea that geeks inherited the earth—big proponent of. And, you know, you translate that into the curiosity you need because there's so much change happening on so many different fronts. You've gotta have that, not only the, you know, get hyped on something new, but have enough rigor to dig in and be hands-on enough to know what's real and what really matters. And, probably most importantly, what do you do about it?

(Bill Briggs at 00:16:36) Right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:16:37) Yes. Like VR pops up, and then all these—your clients are like, is this something we have to—is this something that's happening in high school, or is this something that's going to affect and disrupt our business? So you have to guide them through that?

(Bill Briggs at 00:16:50) Yeah. And the, you know, the glory of having tens of thousands of just rock star engineers and architects and technologists that I can get a very grounded opinion from folks from across our organization. But, you know, ultimately, yeah, it's the—you know, VR and augmented reality together, we call it digital reality. We're bullish on it.

(Bill Briggs at 00:17:13) We're seeing real applications in training and education and field service, and, you know, but navigating through, you know, when and—a lot of your guests that have come from, you know, big commercial enterprises. Big enter—it's not can we do it and prove a concept? And can we have a pilot that's interesting? Can we scale it to 5,000 retail locations? Can we scale up to global network operations across—if we're a telco?

(Bill Briggs at 00:17:42) You know, and that's the piece that you've gotta balance the imagination of what could you do with. You know? I call it the "hard-ilities" of being a CTO or CIO. Right? Reliability and scalability and security and maintainability and, you know, where do you make bets?

(Bill Briggs at 00:17:57) And because, you know, an organization like Deloitte or any of our clients, when we invest in these things, and the responsibility of being able to put a thumb on the scale and accelerate the path to commercialization and relevancy on it. You know, but digital reality is one. Blockchain is one. We put cognitive and AI in a big bucket of just massive potential. We're already seeing a lot of it today. There's much more to come. Those are kind of the horizon 1.5-ish. You know, already seeing a lot of activity and only expect more. And then we've got the collection of things that are well out in that horizon that are equally interesting but, you know, have a different type of investment profile because, you know, quantum is real, but its maturity is still at a place where it wouldn't make sense for us to put a billion dollar bet behind it now.

(Joel Beasley at 00:18:49) But we need to have—we have an upcoming guest, one of the lead people at IBM, and they just released their quantum cloud. I don't even know if I should say this right now, but I don't know if it's public knowledge or not. But they didn't tell me not to say it, and they're coming on the show to talk about it in a month. Yeah. I know. Is that a thing, Quantum Cloud? You can rent quantum compute?

(Bill Briggs at 00:19:14) Yeah. They've been on that track for a while. And then at CES this year, they had the first kind of commercial appliance to not just have it, you know, a cloud consumption model and their capability to actually have it in-house. And, yeah, I mean, the science is real. It's a collection of a lot of things that are advancing at a rapid pace. The timing is always the real kicker of, you know, when will it hit the, you know, they call it quantum advantage. The fact that I can do quantum algorithms that maybe aren't distinct yet because the number of qubits or the fidelity of the algorithm, all the things that make it so—you know, why we look at it and say get excited in five to ten years. You know, today, I can do things to show it's going to be real. I can start building skill sets because thinking about quantum engineering, quantum algorithm design is completely different than traditional conventional computing.

(Bill Briggs at 00:20:09) So, you know, we better get ready because as the capability advances, there's gonna be real advantage to be had by—you know? But we're still waiting on, you know, and I wish you could say it's two years and three days away from quantum advantage. You on that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Out of context, that'll be the great pull line. Yeah. The way CTO definitively says.

(Bill Briggs at 00:20:33) But it's real and we're investing in the—and the important thing that we do is help translate it into, okay, it's gonna help with—and fill in your blank in the use cases with industry lenses of why it's gonna matter. You know, the tech is great. You can geek out on the tech, but, ultimately, our clients are saying, the so what, not just the what. Right?

(Joel Beasley at 00:20:53) So I read your digital—the Tech Trends 2019.

(Bill Briggs at 00:20:57) Oh, yeah. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:20:58) That's an amazingly knowledgeable yet short look at the entire marketplace.

(Bill Briggs at 00:21:07) Yeah. Thank—no. It's a labor of love. It's the tenth year we've done it. It's been my baby, you know, with an incredible team that rallies and creates what you see. But I think that the mission hasn't changed. And we've said, let's look at the eighteen to twenty-four months to make it the pragmatic side of prognostication. Right? So that balancing of it's gotta have some novelty and, you know, it's gotta be trendy, but it's not—I'm a big Beach Boys fan. Right?

(Bill Briggs at 00:21:36) So it's not "Wouldn't It Be Nice." I hope and wish and pray it might come true. Like, we've gotta have the real examples we can point to, folks around the globe. You know, either they're ahead of the market and they're fully realizing the potential of the trend or they're laying the breadcrumbs of, you know, how it's—you know, circa today, what's happening so you can see why you need to think about and care about it, where it's gonna go. But it's a hell of a—it's a massive amount of work. We're already, you know, started on—for next year's we'll publish it at the end of the calendar year, and it takes that long to bring it all together, especially because of the client lenses. The views of real companies and what they're doing, real governments and what they're doing. I think without it, it would ring hollow. So I've got really interesting—oh, go ahead.

(Joel Beasley at 00:22:23) No. You're gonna drop the most real interesting part right now, so go ahead.

(Bill Briggs at 00:22:26) Yeah. Alright. You can't—that's you—you can't just bury that lead. When we started at ten years ago, the primary audience was the modern CTO. It was the CTO, the CIO, the tech exec. And I look now and, you know, this week, I'm gonna be with two boards, one CEO and a management team. You know, even within our organization, it's been elevated reporting to the CEO and how we think about collection of our businesses and what we're doing. It's that shift from tech as an interesting enabling, you know, but separate from business strategy, separate from competitive corporate strategy. And it being at the heart of that even to the point of our strategy practice—we used to have a separate business strategy and tech strategy, which, I promise you made sense at one time, but it certainly doesn't make sense, you know, today. And that's now one group and, you know, can handle the most provocative, you know, how do we launch new businesses and completely put ourselves out of market to very specific, you know, what do we do about finance or supply chains or how do we modernize our tech stack or blah blah blah blah. So—

(Joel Beasley at 00:23:36) That was actually one of my questions anyways. Like, you—I read your article, and so I wanted you to bring that up on the podcast because I read your article about your tech trends. And when you started saying how the, you know, CTO, CIO's primary audience, but then what you've noticed is as technology is consuming the world, that audience has widened to all these, like, CEOs, board members, and you're having these cool AI, VR, like, all these modern tech conversations with these people who you would normally only have those conversations with CTOs.

(Bill Briggs at 00:24:07) Yeah. And I've heard a few of your guests kind of drop this concept of tech savviness, or tech fluency. And we actually try to make that a pretty precise conversation and say, listen, that is a CEO level. That is a line of business president. That is an executive VP level responsibility. You can't outsource that to say, I've got, you know, a great CTO, a great CIO, and they're gonna come to me with all the answers. You know, it's that shared responsibility of curiosity needs to be consistent. And how do we help cultivate that? And then you can say at the quote-unquote business level across the management team down in the line. You could put it at the board level.

(Bill Briggs at 00:24:52) You know, what's the responsibility of the board? And if you say corporate oversight includes sustained relevancy in markets, then how do you take tech disruption out of that equation? You know, but recognize that we use a scale of saying there's tech curious, there's tech savvy, right, which is an expectation of more than conversational awareness. And then there's tech fluent, which is, you know, you're in the weeds and can, you know, click down four or five levels and, you know, that we have mastery and expertise at the further end. And savvy should be an expectation for the organization at large, period.

(Bill Briggs at 00:25:34) And, you know, to recognize there's a need to get there, you've gotta elevate what others are doing to make this a program that's, you know, gets embedded in the culture. And so, you know, it's a fascinating—and that's happened in the last two or three years and that's a recent development. I think I always thought that way, and maybe I'm biased as a computer engineer with an MBA that spends a lot of time with executive teams that—trying to push that perspective, but the market's catching on.

(Joel Beasley at 00:26:07) I like it because it makes us more valuable. It's like, why not?

(Bill Briggs at 00:26:11) For sure.

(Joel Beasley at 00:26:13) I'm curious about your team, like, your direct team. How is that set up? Because, you know, you look on LinkedIn, you see Deloitte, 300,000. I'm seeing you guys do strategy consulting. You've got engineering teams everywhere. You do so much, such a wide area of professional services. And I've never talked with a CTO that does such a wide area of them. Usually, you know, it's niche under, you know, one business. But for you, it's like you're—it's like you've got the client business, but, you know, my client businesses don't get really big like that. It's like you've gotten really big as a consulting company.

(Bill Briggs at 00:26:53) Yeah. I mean, take—part of this is the idea that our business is shifting and having productized solutions as a complement to our services and the expertise our people bring is a really important shift that we're in the midst of. And so this idea that we could have solutions and assets and, you know, there's some examples of that being a complete product, kind of stand-alone SKU. You can consume it without a services agreement behind it, but we really found that the wheelhouse is bringing IP codified in an asset with the depth of our expertise. You know, those two kind of go hand in hand, and that's the future of our, you know, for sure our firm, we think the industry at large.

(Bill Briggs at 00:27:32) So that's kind of—there's a starting point there, which then helps put a little bit of focus on, okay, why would research in advanced emerging technologies matter? It's not just for the advising clients of what to do. It's actually shaping our investment portfolio and the like. And then I have, you know, incredible peers, you know, so our Chief Innovation Officer—she leads our investments in the sensing and the prototyping incubation piece, which is, you know, hundreds of people across the globe. We've got our platform groups that does—so it's a nice little mix of, you know, my team. We try to keep relatively nimble.

(Bill Briggs at 00:28:07) Yeah. So it's 100 or so across the globe, the mix of dedicated percentage of times in. And some of them are focused on, like, parts of the portfolio, the horizon lens. This is a whole team looking at the emerging technology, kind of horizon two out, and just making sure that we're aware of what's happening and what investment patterns there are and kind of coming up with the recommendation of what should we do with something like quantum. And then there's the ones that are closer to the, you know, what's being commercialized today, which are building out technical assets that are driving new alliance partners that are co-investing with clients. And so it's a nice, healthy mix.

(Bill Briggs at 00:28:44) And the important hook is—we have a centrally funded team, but it's so tightly linked into all the P&Ls that actually are out shaping our clients' futures for them. And so it's, you know, the hooks into our customer practice or our enterprise ops practice, which is ERP and supply chain and finance and or strategy or whatever it might be. So it's—and we find a way to take advantage of the brainpower we have across, you know, and keep a sizable kind of central team and investment vehicle, but with an eye toward everything that's having a link into the network, into the business, you know, eventually into the market or client or—it's not, you know, very, very little pure R&D. It's all applied R&D. But, you know, with the horizon lens, it's not just immediate.

(Bill Briggs at 00:29:32) And that's clear to me, but I live it. I'm not sure if that's clear. That's a rattle through.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:37) I'm not gonna lie to you. It's all fifty-fifty percent. No. But you gave me an idea. You said it's about 100 people. Right? You got about 100 people in your organization. You gave me an idea of some of your peers. But I think the thing I'm most interested in, as far as right now, is you've been at Deloitte for twenty years. Right?

(Bill Briggs at 00:29:55) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:29:55) And that's pretty rare in today's work climate. So I wanna know what have you learned, you know, staying with the same company and rising all the way up through the ranks to the CTO.

(Bill Briggs at 00:30:05) Yeah. I mean, I said when I joined that, you know, as soon as I get bored, I'm gonna find something else to do, you know. And there's certainly been a lot of opportunities over the years to do it. I think what's great is with consulting, you really get to live your client's biggest problems. So for the first half of my career, it was all client service, you know, massive transformation initiatives, you know, building the electronic trading platform that some of the major security issues run on today or helping big energy companies go through deregulation and standing up a brand new operating platform or, you know, thinking about big private companies that say, how do we actually go from being a holding company across our entities and make it common processes and common technology platform?

(Bill Briggs at 00:30:51) And so every project was its own career in a way for the first, you know—my depth of expertise was in integration and architecture, which lent itself to digging deeply in, you know, all the different areas of, of course, the technology stack. Like, you have to be deep in infrastructure, deep in data, deep in applications, deep in experience. Yeah. But it also forced you to ask the tough questions of kind of business process and capability and why. So, you know, to be the integration guy, you had to know all the piece parts, what the end-to-end flow would look like, and what were the performance characteristics you're trying to enable.

(Bill Briggs at 00:31:29) And then as the broader architect of these big transmission deals and, you know, eventually the program lead, that was the nice—you know, the computer engineer and the MBA came together really nicely to bring that to life. And then with the CTO gig, it's been, you know, I think it's the best job in the firm. I mean, looking out, helping navigate through—yeah, seriously.

(Bill Briggs at 00:31:51) I know. Yeah. You know, especially with the way the world's moved with technology. So, you know, I personally—you know, when my friends that have been around as long as I have, I'm sure there were no office pools about who was gonna be the guy on stage doing keynotes. And, like, that piece is for sure nurture, not nature. But with anything, you get good at it with reps, you know. So, you know, and some coaching and a lot of practice along the way.

(Bill Briggs at 00:32:20) But this, you know, moving from doing what I was doing for a lot of our clients into doing it for Deloitte was a pretty natural progression, you know, as our business got more serious about "this is our business, you know, this is our strategy, this is our future." But 21 years ago, there was no—there was no part of the long-haired, ill-fitting-clothes-wearing Bill Briggs that said, "I'm gonna be—that's where I wanna be in '20." You know, I wouldn't have had the ambition to even say it, and I certainly wouldn't have had the volition to follow through with it. So with a lot of—I mean, great mentorship along the way. I mean, I love you have a theme of that. You know, that's certainly been the case for me.

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:04) Well, yeah. We all need a lot of great people. That's how we get farther ahead, and that's who we're serving anyways, right? And one of the things I think is really cool about Deloitte is how the work you do to stay relevant for yourself is also work that you can do to charge with your clients.

(Bill Briggs at 00:33:26) Yeah. Yeah. And I just charge—I mean, yeah. No. And—

(Joel Beasley at 00:33:29) I'm sorry. It's a model. It's a business model, right? You guys sell your—but—

(Bill Briggs at 00:33:33) For sure. No, I think it's—no, no, no.

(Bill Briggs at 00:33:36) You're—I mean, the—but let me do an "and." I think it's right, you know, and I think, at least our view of the world is saying, "Hey, we wanna be less about time and hours and rate and bodies and be looked at as a vendor, actually, you know, being contracted for a very specific scope." And then more "how do we partner with and actually put skin in the game to help?" And, you know, "transform" is a word that's wildly overused, but it's what it is.

(Bill Briggs at 00:34:03) How do we transform the future of health care and work with providers and plans and government and retail and, you know—and I think that to do that, if you're gonna live up to this idea we gotta transform, the answer isn't gonna come from the patterns and the well-trodden ground of what we've done in the past. And that has to inform it because we have to get there from today, but it's not enough. So for sure, I mean—and I'll just translate from, you know, "charging for it" to saying that the future of our relevancy is being able to help our clients figure that out, navigate through it. And for us to say, "It's not enough just to say we're gonna put some smart people on it and figure it out for you at a high premium." Like, we're gonna put skin in the game and actually co-invest and co-develop. That's a heck of a shift.

(Joel Beasley at 00:34:50) I just like that you guys got—you took something that is usually a cost center for most businesses, right? Like, "I need a research department." They usually do that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:34:59) But at your company, you've managed to work it into a line of business as well, and I think that's smart. I think it's clever.

(Bill Briggs at 00:35:04) No, it's—that's—I appreciate that. We actually, for a lot of our clients, we actually do research as a service, you know, a mix of my team and some others that, you know, what we're doing anyway to be guiding, you know, and we add some context and relevancy for a given industry, for a given client. But, you know, that's a valuable product in its own right. And so we're commercializing that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:35:26) So you brought up transformation. So this is great. So I was actually talking with, based on Twitter, with Cody. He's like the CTO of T-Mobile. Really cool dude. You can actually get along with him. Yeah.

(Bill Briggs at 00:35:40) I know Cody. Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:35:41) Oh, you know Cody? Okay, cool. Yeah. I was like texting him pictures of different running shoes. He's big into running, and so I was like, "Which one should I get?" But digital transformation comes up a lot. It's been up a lot for like 10 years. Yep. But the most interesting thing about digital transformation is how the definition has changed as we've transformed digitally. So—

(Joel Beasley at 00:36:03) I'm like, to me, from my perspective, which was super limited, very engineering 10 years ago, it was just about moving to the cloud. Like, you were digitally transformed—it's about moving to the cloud. But today, it seems more like cost—making it more accessible to your—making your product more accessible to your customers and more about customer value. Like, what does it mean today?

(Bill Briggs at 00:36:23) Yeah. And, you know, there was a step after the very technical. Into it, it was about multichannel, omnichannel, and it was really an emphasis on customer experience engagement. I think, well, in the last chapter of Tech Trends is trying to actually put some definition behind the term. And, you know, the whole theme of the report was "Beyond the Digital Frontier." We dabbled with this idea of "post-digital" about seven years ago.

(Bill Briggs at 00:36:49) And it wasn't to say digital isn't important. It's the same point of it's just become the basis of competition, right? We're in the post-industrial age. It doesn't mean we're beyond industrialization. It just means we don't talk about something distinct and unique. I think that's the—and when we look at digital transformation, it's "let's move from rhetoric and really empty narrative into, 'Hey, how do we shape ambitions of things we couldn't do without?'" And certainly technology across the horizons is a piece of that.

(Bill Briggs at 00:37:19) But it's capital T Technology. It's not just IT—very important, right? It's much about quantum and space tech and physical robotics and nano and neuro and, you know—and then what does it mean today? And it's also other things like the evolving role of ecosystems and partnership models that, you know, are truly breaking down the boundaries between industry verticals and lenses, you know. Or it's this idea of risk and, you know, not just having a defensive posture around security and privacy and regulatory and compliance, but, you know, that could be a competitive advantage and weapon depending how it fits into your plans and, you know, other things. And taking those to actually have some very concrete, you know, "Here's bounded initiatives with measurable results that we're gonna go after," and the collection of those equals a digital transformation strategy. Yeah. But each one of those, hopefully, has some shared components, you know, to invest in the cloud piece of that journey, you know, and have it be done X number of times across different divisions, departments, geographies.

(Bill Briggs at 00:38:20) But it's that level of, "Hey, to us as an aerospace organization, our digital transformation is digital twins and be able to run product R&D." We need data management. We need potentially blockchain suppliers. We need, you know—but it shifts the emphasis from being the ingredients, which, you know, too often a report like a Tech Trends report, it makes individual technologies the hero of a story where they're all dangling modifiers, you know, without the—these come together with purpose for this result. Those statements become digital transformation when done well.

(Bill Briggs at 00:38:54) And that can be at the entire—you know, at the CEO level of—you know, we've pointed in the past to Capital One and how their CEO has said, "We need to build a bank that the software companies would have built, and we need to embed machine learning in everything we do." That's a concrete measure of digital transformation because it lends itself to "we need a different talent pool, we need a different tech stack, we need a different mentality." They've done that tech-savvy initiative across leadership team. But so it's that bounded, purposeful collection of "how do we shape ambitions and spark imagination, what could be possible across," but get it down to those individual recipes that actually mean something. And you can measure if you're making progress against them.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:35) A lot of banks fell behind.

(Bill Briggs at 00:39:38) Yeah.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:38) Like—so what happened for me, I was at SunTrust. I don't know if they're up where you are. I don't know if they're National Bank or not.

(Bill Briggs at 00:39:46) Oh, no. SunTrust. Yep. Okay.

(Joel Beasley at 00:39:48) So then everyone around me, Chase and Wells Fargo, and I started seeing other people use their apps. And like, this was, you know, probably seven years ago. And they were just unbelievable, all the things you could do. You could activate, deactivate. You do all of these features. And then SunTrust was just like buggy app where you could view a balance and it, like, didn't work half the time.

(Joel Beasley at 00:40:12) And so I would talk to them, like, the branch manager and stuff, because at the time, you know, like, I was—had an app development company. So I was like, "Why don't you guys just improve this?" Right? Because I wasn't trying to get them as a business. I just wanted them to improve because I was a customer. And they didn't for like seven, eight years. And then eventually, I just switched to Wells Fargo because I was like, "This is so cool, all the things I can do and never have to worry about it." And, you know, their strategy was messed up. They even, like, separated a personal app and a business app so you could only do, you know, business on one. And then on the business one, you had to call a 1-800 number and then like get a code and then go into the bank to even get access to the app.

(Joel Beasley at 00:40:52) It was just ridiculous. But when you say companies out there, like, that have CEOs, what was the name of the—you said Capital One? Is that who you—

(Bill Briggs at 00:41:00) Yeah, mentioned—we—it's just been a public story we've had in the past that we pointed to. Yeah. And but you hit on—there's this emphasis on, you know, human-centered design is a great organizing principle of, you know, "let's look at the individual." And it's not just customer, though customer certainly is a good place to focus, you know, but it's as much on your supply chain, your finance, your HR organization, your procurement organization.

(Bill Briggs at 00:41:26) They don't get a lot of glory, but a huge part in the shift. And the idea of "what could we do differently with this collection of capabilities," you know, "and then are we willing to invest?" Because the surety of the return and the timing of the return are gonna feel different for some of this than, "Hey, I need to do, you know, my tech maintenance on my infrastructure stack that I know, you know, I can predict it out five years within a few pennies, you know." Or "I'm gonna do a finance transformation 10 years ago." We could tell you exactly what that would cost, exactly what the return was.

(Bill Briggs at 00:41:56) And there's still a lot that falls under that, kind of the Horizon Now investment window. But this shift toward "we have to have a portfolio that's looking out and being bolder," because if we don't imagine tomorrow, like your example, the market will. I mean, when there's inefficiencies, the market's incredibly efficient in finding ways to address them and—

(Joel Beasley at 00:42:22) Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

(Bill Briggs at 00:42:22) So—

(Joel Beasley at 00:42:23) I wanna talk a little bit about leadership and, like, leadership and technology. I don't know exact—I know you said you have about 100 people in your organization, but, you know, what do—first of all, like, what do you think leadership is? And secondly, you know, how do you grow and mentor your leadership team in technology?

(Bill Briggs at 00:42:41) So I think a part of it is helping cultivate a vision and then being that sponsor for the vision and just consistency in that. I think there's too much change fatigue. You know, so there's something with leadership of it doesn't mean your strategy doesn't evolve and change, but, you know, being thoughtful and having some kind of a thread that's consistent through is huge, gets lost. And then giving—you know, my team is—I treat them as startups and, you know, try to allow individual pods to think in themselves as CEOs and say, "Listen, I trust you to help guide us in what we need to do. I can't be the expert in everything. I'm gonna come in and ask questions, assume that I know a lot on every topic." In reality, I'm, you know, it's a nice spectrograph of depth across where it might need to be. But, you know, that empowerment and trust, with enough hands on the wheel and details. So, you know, it's—I like to think it's hard to BS me.

(Bill Briggs at 00:43:44) Now it might require a Google prompt behind me and a few phone-a-friends to fill in the detail behind it, but I think that mix of the teams feel like they're building something, they own the destiny of what they're building. And then, you know, our shift in the last number of years has been that, at least, we don't wanna fail fast, but we're gonna celebrate the idea that in the portfolio, not everything could be winners. And that's important. And we're a private partnership. When we make an investment, it's coming out of, you know, I'm a partner and I help directly personally contribute to that investment. So that's a different level of rigor. It feels a lot like a startup in ways, right? With—

(Joel Beasley at 00:44:22) I don't understand this last part that you're talking about. You're a private—

(Bill Briggs at 00:44:27) Yeah. Deloitte's a partnership. So think of it like a law firm. And Deloitte is a professional services firm, but all—there is a group of partners that actually own the firm. So we're a private entity. And, you know, I and 2,000 of my closest friends, like, we own Deloitte. And that's not something we, you know, we don't see that in the airport billboards. But for clients, it's actually something that's compelling because we're not beholden to a quarterly result statement and the investments that matter. We stand behind the work we do and—

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:00) That's actually really cool, man.

(Bill Briggs at 00:45:02) I—

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:02) I want you to just publicize that more. That's—

(Bill Briggs at 00:45:05) Yeah. No, it's—it's an interesting, you know, we—you never want your how you organize internally to be the point, right? But it is an interesting—when we say "sense of partnership," that's a very specific thing in our culture because of kind of our heritage.

(Bill Briggs at 00:45:23) And so, you know, when you have guys like me standing up and saying "we need to make an investment in Quantum," it's not just a crackpot CTO saying "let's go spend the Street's money on something that might come to fruition or not." It's, you know—

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:37) You'll tell them that. I'm writing a—

(Bill Briggs at 00:45:38) Piece of that check. Yeah. And I'm writing a piece of the check and wanting to support it. So—

(Joel Beasley at 00:45:44) So tell me about the culture there. Like, a lot of companies, they'll have two or three main points on your culture. Obviously, partnership is a very important part of your culture, but what other items?

(Bill Briggs at 00:45:53) Yeah. Well, and I like the fact that more and more organizations are using diversity, inclusion as an emphasis point. That's something that we've had since I joined. I went to Notre Dame. I'm a good recovering Catholic. The sense of purpose and community and just the amount of service and investment we made in the world around us and then the type of people we try to bring in is something that's just awesome. And you look at, you know—I don't know. I think it's since I joined, being listed as a top place for women to work. And then the—we track our diversity, inclusion, and how we're doing against all levels, including partners and this commitment of being aggressive and leading in that. So that's awesome. The culture, courage, and curiosity is huge here and that idea of, you know, driving to reinvent yourself.

(Bill Briggs at 00:46:43) Because, like you said, if we don't have interesting, compelling things to bring to our clients, our people aren't relevant. And so that's not just the CTO's job. That's our collective job. And then I mentioned at the beginning, you know, Wednesday, I'll be there at fifth grade breakfast. I think it's pretty awesome.

(Bill Briggs at 00:47:02) Like, the individual commitment for flexibility, predictability. You think about it. If you're on a project and let's say your client is in Minnetonka, Minnesota, you're there every week for maybe two years helping them through a massive transformation initiative. And you live in New York, you live in Columbus, Georgia, you live in San Francisco. This idea, how do you help people as they go through life transitions?

(Bill Briggs at 00:47:28) Find a way to make that tenable. And we do an awesome job of that's a very individual thing. Right? It's person by person what's important. For me, it might be I want to be able to work in R2-D2 on Saturday morning and not be bothered.

(Bill Briggs at 00:47:41) And carve that out. For somebody else, it might be squash. You know, I'm in a squash league on a Wednesday, and I've got to get out by 4:00, and that's really important to me. Awesome. I had an early—you know, one of my early mentors sat me down, and I don't think this is just a Deloitte thing.

(Bill Briggs at 00:47:58) His point was no one decides to become a bad father or a bad husband. Like, that's not a conscious sit down and weigh the pros and cons and decide, you know, I'm going to take a hill turn and be a bad dad. Right? They're perfectly justified concessions you make moment to moment, day to day. In any one of them, there's a good reason why you're making it.

(Bill Briggs at 00:48:20) But you don't have a balance sheet to track your relationship health. And when you look back, you're not going to remember, you know, all the late nights that you turned and all the weekend trips you made. It's going to be the stuff that you missed out on. So just being conscious of that. And listen, I work hard. We work hard as part of the culture. But knowing what's important.

(Bill Briggs at 00:48:41) And I turned down a CEO meeting on Wednesday so I could be with my daughter when she graduates fifth grade. And, you know, that's—and what I think is awesome is no one challenged that. It was like, of course.

(Joel Beasley at 00:48:53) And you turned out a meeting with the president of the United States for this podcast, so I really appreciate that.

(Bill Briggs at 00:48:58) I can't confirm or deny that. I certainly made sure we drove quicker from SFO to get to the office.

(Joel Beasley at 00:49:05) Oh, man. That's great. Yeah. No. This is really good.

(Joel Beasley at 00:49:10) I like the culture there because it aligns. It's reminding me a lot of our culture here. Like, we treat everybody like adults. Right? Where if you have that thing that's very important, like, you self-manage yourself.

(Joel Beasley at 00:49:21) We hit the KPIs. Like, we all have the outcomes that we're trying to drive, and we have a strong culture of individual ownership and commitment.

(Bill Briggs at 00:49:30) Yeah. Yeah. And it's a very flat organization. I'm sure it's like—I mean, it feels like a lot of the startups I work with. And, you know, I have folks on my team that are joining out of undergrad. We've got a few interns that are there, you know, in their twenties, and they have a voice like anyone else.

(Bill Briggs at 00:49:48) Like, literally, level doesn't matter. The best idea wins. Everything we ask everyone to—yeah, completely. And it's driven by passion and purpose.

(Joel Beasley at 00:50:00) Have you read Principles by Ray Dalio?

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:03) No. I haven't.

(Joel Beasley at 00:50:04) Dude, you would love that, man. He built Bridgewater, one of the largest investment firms in the world, off of a lot of these principles that you would identify with him. Like, yeah.

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:14) I love it. I'm not sure.

(Joel Beasley at 00:50:15) I like Audible better than reading the books, but I think if you like Audible, you will like Principles.

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:22) I read quite a bit. My wife gives me a hard time because she's the English major, but I'll have a more classically tilted Kindle library than she does. She's like, what are you reading Joyce for in your forties? Like, it makes no sense, but it's a mix. It's Harari and Joyce. You know, like, I try to—I think Howard Stern has his new book out tomorrow that might end up on my Kindle.

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:46) So it's a good mix.

(Joel Beasley at 00:50:47) I haven't heard about that book. I'll check that one out too.

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:51) Yeah. You would enjoy it because it's all about his interview. I mean, I don't know if you—

(Joel Beasley at 00:50:56) Oh, yeah.

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:56) Listen, but he's a fantastic interviewer.

(Joel Beasley at 00:50:58) Do a lot of them.

(Bill Briggs at 00:50:58) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's kind of has the reputation of being one of the better. And the book is all about prep and technique and individual interviews, what mattered, what he wished he would have done differently.

(Bill Briggs at 00:51:11) So anyway, I have no stock in this, but as a fan, hit him with a Heim. It's—

(Joel Beasley at 00:51:21) Yeah. No. I very much enjoy—I'm almost scared to admit that, like, when—what was it? Like, being age 12. I mean, I'm 31 now.

(Joel Beasley at 00:51:31) Like, age 12, he would have his show on TV. And it was very interesting to learn from as a 12-year-old. But, yeah, he's always super direct, and he's made an entire living out of interviewing.

(Bill Briggs at 00:51:45) And he's evolved. I—when earlier days, the craftiness wasn't high on my list, you know, but he's—it's still there at best, but the mixing board is a lot different. But, and then Harari, I'm sure you've read. You've all collected.

(Joel Beasley at 00:52:00) Now I have to.

(Bill Briggs at 00:52:01) Oh, so, you know, Sapiens about what happened to make—you know, ten thousand years ago, the human race was remarkably indistinctive on the planet. So what happened, you know, from the beginning of time to ten thousand years ago to now to kind of lend itself to dominance? My favorite is the second book, which is Homo Deus. Basically, and this is the inside flap covers. There's no spoilers here.

(Bill Briggs at 00:52:23) But the setup of the book is, if you look and say, okay, in the last ten thousand years, humanity has solved for war and famine and plague. Not eradicated them, but more people die of obesity than starvation. So, you know, we systematically solve for these big issues. Then looking out a hundred years, so expect an exponential return of effect.

(Bill Briggs at 00:52:45) What are the big issues that we should expect humanity to solve for? And the book's organized around the big three. Mortality is the first, so non-accidental death is a problem statement that he believes that we'll be able to solve for. If you solve for that, you have to solve for happiness.

(Joel Beasley at 00:53:02) And then if you solve for mortality and happiness, then you—

(Bill Briggs at 00:53:04) Have to solve for divinity because every definition of a god in any culture you want to look at would—you'd see it walking around on the planet. So, anyway, pass the hookah and pour another bottle of wine, but it's a great collection. Yeah. And very timely into this tech ethics discussion.

(Joel Beasley at 00:53:23) No. No. I—first of all, I saw someone reading the book on the airplane, like, last week when I was headed out to Chicago, and I was like, Sapiens. I've got to—

(Bill Briggs at 00:53:31) See the book a lot.

(Joel Beasley at 00:53:31) But these are the types of—well, I haven't read that book, and I'm definitely interested and it's going to be on my list now. These types of conversations are the ones I was actually having on the plane or I have very often. Like, my favorite one recently is, like, what are the humans building? Like, looking at humans as you would look at an ant mound. If you walk up to an ant and you ask, like, what it's doing.

(Joel Beasley at 00:53:52) It's probably saying that it's just on its own personal mission. It just really wants to carry this grain from here to there. Right. And so they all, like, are contextualized to their own world.

(Joel Beasley at 00:54:02) But then if you step back and look at them, it's like you can clearly see they're building this mound, this, like, place. And then so if you do that with humans and markets, it's like, what are the humans building? You know?

(Bill Briggs at 00:54:12) I love it. I would raise a scotch and engage with that dialogue for sure. And I don't know if we could pull that thread in a few minutes.

(Joel Beasley at 00:54:21) We can't do that in two minutes.

(Bill Briggs at 00:54:22) Yeah. But I love it.

(Joel Beasley at 00:54:24) There'll be a future one. Maybe you could introduce me to a whiskey or a scotch. I don't think I've ever had either of those two. I've had vodkas and beers and stuff, but never whiskey or scotch.

(Bill Briggs at 00:54:35) Yeah. My action figure would come with a cappuccino in one hand and a rocks glass in the other. And the important thing is to remember which end of the day they go in because it could get really messy if you mix them up. But—

(Joel Beasley at 00:54:49) It can. Or fun. Yeah. Well, it could get messy.

(Bill Briggs at 00:54:52) Yeah. Yeah. I could—listen, I'm game. Roll the dice. It could be—alright. Could be great too.

(Joel Beasley at 00:54:57) Well, maybe if—maybe at a conference or something, I'll run into you, and we'll correct that wrong in the universe, and you'll introduce me to a whiskey or a scotch.

(Bill Briggs at 00:55:05) I would enjoy that. I would enjoy that.

(Joel Beasley at 00:55:08) Thank you so much, Bill, for coming on, sharing some inside advice, what your day is like, what it's like being the CTO of Deloitte. This is unbelievable.

(Bill Briggs at 00:55:17) Awesome. I enjoyed it. Big fan. Keep up the great work.

(Joel Beasley at 00:55:20) Thank you, buddy. You too. And follow up with me on the R2-D2 thing when it comes out. If you can give me a call—

(Bill Briggs at 00:55:25) Do a follow-up. Yeah. That'd be cool. Alright.

(Joel Beasley at 00:55:28) Alright. See you. Bye.

(Bill Briggs at 00:55:29) See you. Bye.